What do you think about this?

[Matteo]

Australia was recently exposed in conducting in illegal surveillance on Indonesian officials, including a wiretap on the Indonesian President and his wife. As we have seen in the US, if your country is exposed for engaging in unconstitutional surveillance, it is the international norm to make a formal apology. Obama did this with Germany a month or so back.

It turns out that Tony Abbott, the Australian PM, neglected to give such an apology as he stated "all governments gather information". This has caused outrage in Indonesia and diplomatic relations between the two states have hit its lowest since the 1999 East Timor crisis. Had Abbott apoligised, yes, there would still be friction between the two states, but much less severe than it is now. Indonesia are furious at Australia as Abbott's refusal came across as arrogant and egocentric. People in Indonesia have actually burnt the Australian flag in disapproval.

Do you think this was the right or wrong thing to do? I think Abbott is correct in the sense that all governments do, indeed, gather information. Indonesia have been busted spying on Australia, as well, but an apology, even if it was founded on deception and emptiness, would have simply been the right thing to do. Now because of Abbott's snobbiness, Indonesia are refusing to stop boats and support Australia's asylum policy. This means more unneeded and easily avoidable mess for Australia. It has also severely hindered our relations with our closest neighbour in the region.

I do sort of understand Abbott's intents. He is not backing down. He is simply stating the truth and going against the international 'norms' and laws, but sometimes you need to suck it up and just apologise to avoid a mess.

[PorkChop]

I don't know anything about this situation other than what you've written, but it seems silly that this guy chose the less peaceful settlement of the two.

[Everlong]

I think it's actually kind of cool that he's not trying to bullshit the general public by saying he's sorry when he truly isn't. At least he's being transparent about it. Well, at least, he's being transparent about it after getting caught, which is more than you can say for most world leaders in similar situations.

[Chewy]

Indonesia didn't apologise to Abbott for bugging his phone when he visited there earlier this year, either.

All governments accept that this shit goes on, it's just not readily made available to the public. Since the Indonesians for the most part, hate the western world they see this as a great opportunity to get their scorn on.

The Indonesian president is just going along with it, he couldn't really give two fucks about it to be honest, but he has to be seen as being outrage for his people.

[AkydefGoldberg]

Yeah surveillance happens by every government on each other. But when you get caught then the norm is apologise to try and stem the damage.

As Tim says, it's better to apologise but if you're firm in what you believe in then that's admirable. I'd be intrigued if he would have held the same stance had it not been Indonesia who complained but the UK, Germany or another ally rather than a country who they don't particularly get on with.

It's easy to be firm with a country you don't like or don't care about if relations died than with an ally who you depend on.

[Matteo]

Since the Indonesians for the most part, hate the western world they see this as a great opportunity to get their scorn on.

I doubt Indonesia will keep a grudge for that long. They rely a lot on Australian foreign aid.

[Chewy]

Since the Indonesians for the most part, hate the western world they see this as a great opportunity to get their scorn on.

I doubt Indonesia will keep a grudge for that long. They rely a lot on Australian foreign aid.

Precisely.

Someone has to keep their toddlers in cigarettes.