Does anyone else find the Cena vs Rusev feud cringeworthy?

[PorkChop]

The America vs The World storyline is terrible. The brash, foreign heel who hates America vs the patriot is so horribly played out in pro-wrestling, particularly in WWE. I can't believe this storyline is still being used in 2015, especially during WrestleMania season.

Like alright, we get it. We've got it since Hulk Hogan was doing this shit back in the 80's. America is the GOAT country and anyone who disagrees is a chump and will get beaten up, because fuck you, we're America. Look at our freedom. LOOK AT IT.

I'm a big fan of Rusev and Cena hasn't been as unbearable as usual lately. I just wish they had a better storyline.

[The Legend]

No.

[SlightlyJames]

Yeah, the majority of people here have been saying the same thing for weeks now.

[PorkChop]

No.

Excellent post, 10/10.

It seems The Legend has proven me wrong guys, I'll be deleting the thread shortly to spare any further embarrassment.

[The Legend]

No.

Excellent post, 10/10.

It seems The Legend has proven me wrong guys, I'll be deleting the thread shortly to spare any further embarrassment.

Oh I'd explain in further detail why I disagree with you, but it undoubtedly would just end with me arguing with a bunch of the European members of the board and I don't feel like it today.

[Str8Shooter]

WWE has often forgotten that many people outside of their home base watch their shows too.

But as long as the Live crowds continue to eat this stuff up and react to it with their "USA" chants, I doubt we'll ever see the end of stuff like this.

[Westcoastvibes]

I understand why they do it. Its about having pride for your country, if wwe was a European company that spent most of its time touring Europe then Russev and Cena would be in opposite roles and Cena would be the cocky American while Russev was the patriotic savior.

What i am most disappointed with is right when wwe needed to get russev away from the anti-American shit they fucking throw him deeper into it. Russev needs to get away before he becomes stuck in it.

[Everlong]

Yeah I can understand the direction of the feud, especially considering that it's over the US TItle. I completely agree with @WestCoastVibes though, they're really running the risk of having Rusev lose a ton of steam by focusing too much on this anti-American shtick.

Another problem is that it's Cena, and Cena makes almost everything cringeworthy.

For the most part, I'm basically over feuds that revolve around patriotism, but it actually makes sense in this scenario to an extent, given that they're trying to build the importance of the title.

[PorkChop]

I understand why they do it. Its about having pride for your country, if wwe was a European company that spent most of its time touring Europe then Russev and Cena would be in opposite roles and Cena would be the cocky American while Russev was the patriotic savior.

I really doubt this. I can't think of a country who is as overly patriotic as America, particularly any European ones.

Speaking as an Englishman, I can safely say that a vast majority of people would find an "English patriot saves the day" storyline horribly cringeworthy - as should Americans, with the boring, repetitive, "American man saves the day by defeating [insert political enemy here]!". It's 2015 now. Give this shit a rest.

[The Legend]

I understand why they do it. Its about having pride for your country, if wwe was a European company that spent most of its time touring Europe then Russev and Cena would be in opposite roles and Cena would be the cocky American while Russev was the patriotic savior.

I really doubt this. I can't think of a country who is as overly patriotic as America, particularly any European ones.

Speaking as an Englishman, I can safely say that a vast majority of people would find an "English patriot saves the day" storyline horribly cringeworthy - as should Americans, with the boring, repetitive, "American man saves the day by defeating [insert political enemy here]!". It's 2015 now. Give this shit a rest.

For the record there's nothing I can't stand more than somebody outside a group telling a group how they should feel about something or what they should, how they should react. It just comes off as a gigantic judgmental arrogance that bugs me to all hell.

yeah we are proud people and we like to feel good about our country being better than others, so what? I feel sorry for you that you can't have that same pride.

[Westcoastvibes]

I understand why they do it. Its about having pride for your country, if wwe was a European company that spent most of its time touring Europe then Russev and Cena would be in opposite roles and Cena would be the cocky American while Russev was the patriotic savior.

I really doubt this. I can't think of a country who is as overly patriotic as America, particularly any European ones.

Speaking as an Englishman, I can safely say that a vast majority of people would find an "English patriot saves the day" storyline horribly cringeworthy - as should Americans, with the boring, repetitive, "American man saves the day by defeating [insert political enemy here]!". It's 2015 now. Give this shit a rest.

I disagree. You cant say that if a major world wide wrestling company was centered in England that they would not run a storyline now and again about some guy from another country bad mouthing England only to have a native englishman step up and fight the bad guy.

You take pride in your country, you dont want people to degrade or slander it, its a cheep, easy, effective way to garner heat.

[Georgerv]

I understand why they do it. Its about having pride for your country, if wwe was a European company that spent most of its time touring Europe then Russev and Cena would be in opposite roles and Cena would be the cocky American while Russev was the patriotic savior.

I really doubt this. I can't think of a country who is as overly patriotic as America, particularly any European ones.

Speaking as an Englishman, I can safely say that a vast majority of people would find an "English patriot saves the day" storyline horribly cringeworthy - as should Americans, with the boring, repetitive, "American man saves the day by defeating [insert political enemy here]!". It's 2015 now. Give this shit a rest.

I disagree. You cant say that if a major world wide wrestling company was centered in England that they would not run a storyline now and again about some guy from another country bad mouthing England only to have a native englishman step up and fight the bad guy.

You take pride in your country, you dont want people to degrade or slander it, its a cheep, easy, effective way to garner heat.

Yup except that a rather large portion of Englishmen don't take pride in our country at all, hell the only time we show any kind of patriotism is when we get drunk and paint the flag on our face for the world cup.

The storyline just wouldn't fly over here.

We tend to care more about the city we live in than the country as a whole. Any wrestling shows I go to do the Liverpool vs Manchester feud

[PorkChop]

I disagree. You cant say that if a major world wide wrestling company was centered in England that they would not run a storyline now and again about some guy from another country bad mouthing England only to have a native englishman step up and fight the bad guy.

You take pride in your country, you dont want people to degrade or slander it, its a cheep, easy, effective way to garner heat.

You've assumed a lot about England here. England really isn't a very patriotic country at all, and an "Englishman saves the day by defeating political enemy!" seems like the kind of storyline which would entertain BNP and UKIP voters. Most people would find it horribly cringeworthy. Ask any Englishman on this board, they'll back me up. As for degrading and slandering the country, we don't particularly care because we're not patriotic. If anything, we invite that kind of thing. Again, ask any Englishman on this board.

For the record there's nothing I can't stand more than somebody outside a group telling a group how they should feel about something or what they should, how they should react. It just comes off as a gigantic judgmental arrogance that bugs me to all hell.

yeah we are proud people and we like to feel good about our country being better than others, so what? I feel sorry for you that you can't have that same pride.

You talk about gigantic judgemental arrogance and in the following sentence say your country is better than others?

I just... ugh. That whole reply. There are no words.

[The Legend]

For the record there's nothing I can't stand more than somebody outside a group telling a group how they should feel about something or what they should, how they should react. It just comes off as a gigantic judgmental arrogance that bugs me to all hell.

yeah we are proud people and we like to feel good about our country being better than others, so what? I feel sorry for you that you can't have that same pride.

You talk about gigantic judgemental arrogance and in the following sentence say your country is better than others?

I just... ugh. That whole reply. There are no words.

Not so much on the reading comprehension I see. I didn't say our country was definitively better than others, I said we find comfort in thinking our country is better than others in our own personal beliefs. I would need facts and statistics to back up the first thought. I just hold it as a personal belief in the second part. Every person should feel that way and have that pride in their country. And yet again, there you were judging my beliefs.

[Westcoastvibes]

I disagree. You cant say that if a major world wide wrestling company was centered in England that they would not run a storyline now and again about some guy from another country bad mouthing England only to have a native englishman step up and fight the bad guy.

You take pride in your country, you dont want people to degrade or slander it, its a cheep, easy, effective way to garner heat.

You've assumed a lot about England here. England really isn't a very patriotic country at all, and an "Englishman saves the day by defeating political enemy!" seems like the kind of storyline which would entertain BNP and UKIP voters. Most people would find it horribly cringeworthy. Ask any Englishman on this board, they'll back me up. As for degrading and slandering the country, we don't particularly care because we're not patriotic. If anything, we invite that kind of thing. Again, ask any Englishman on this board.

So what you are saying is because England residents have no patriotism for the whole of your country that wwe should not play off Americans having unparalleled patriotism for America?

[Hanley!]

For the record there's nothing I can't stand more than somebody outside a group telling a group how they should feel about something or what they should, how they should react. It just comes off as a gigantic judgmental arrogance that bugs me to all hell.

yeah we are proud people and we like to feel good about our country being better than others, so what? I feel sorry for you that you can't have that same pride.

I think what's pissing people off in this case is that it's being inflicted on the rest of us too. A global audience is expected to get behind Cena's conquering of Russia on behalf of all proud Americans. But realistically everyone who isn't American doesn't have a horse in the race and will therefore find it hard to care. It would be a lot easier to invest in the angle if it wasn't based so heavily around patriotism. Even if it was more focused on being against certain Russian values, that would make it easier for other fans to invest. Instead the focus lies more on how great America is.

And yeah, I know we've been around and around on the whole American company/International company bit, but it is an international company with international fans who are entitled to their own opinions - even on the angles that aren't for them. And I understand that you're annoyed at the Europeans for complaining about being left out in the cold so often. I even sympathise to an extent. But it doesn't make those complaints any less justified, and it doesn't make your irritation equal to their feelings of neglect.

Stories like this one don't just leave the non-Americans with little to invest in. They can often rub them up the wrong way too. Constant references to America being the "Greatest country in the world" can be irritating to non-Americans. When Cena starts saying that stuff, I find myself wondering if there are young fans watching in Europe or Canada or wherever else, feeling like they're being excluded by their hero.

Leaving the WWE behind for a minute, there is a difference between national pride and American patriotism. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, so I apologise in advance if this causes any offense. This can be a prickly subject with some people. But from the outside looking in, Americans seem to have a strange relationship with their country. They might think the same thing about us, and that's completely understandable. But from our perspective, Americans seem a lot more patriotic than most other countries in the Western world, and the language that they use when discussing their country can be quite over the top.

I understand national pride. I've experienced it myself. There are aspects of my country and its people that make me proud to be Irish. But I'd never call it "the greatest country in the world". Nobody here would. The same probably goes for most Western countries outside of America. You know what the best country in the world really is? No, you don't. And neither does anybody else, because it would be completely impossible to quantify. No country is perfect. It's easy for these comments to grate on the non-Americans if they're subjected to them for long enough.

I enjoy my freedom also, but I don't trumpet Irish freedom constantly as if we invented the concept, or as if we're the only country offering it at present. This is another point that can read as quite condescending.

Now I'm not trying to judge Americans or America here, or criticize their way of doing things. I'm just trying to explain that it differs from other countries and that's a big part of why these kinds of patriotic storylines don't work for us.

[The Legend]

^^^ I understand how you feel Steve and it's perfectly rational. I have no problem with you feeling that way. I just feel completely differently and here's the other thing that I think is important to remember. WWE has never tried to speak to their entire audience with any given story. They have always been pretty clear in that they view themselves as an almost Saturday Night Live type of variety show. Going back as far as time can the WWE has understood that none of their guys or their stories were going to appeal to everyone, their logic has always been they are speaking to a segment of their audience with every story and if you wait 10 minutes they'll be on to a completely different story and a completely different set of characters.

John Cena doesn't speak to everyone, that's why they mix in Dean Ambrose and Daniel Bryan and Dolph Ziggler and other characters. It's the same as it was during the Attitude Era. A lot of people liked Austin, but not everyone. If you didn't like Austin the next segment was going to include DX or the Hardys or somebody else and if they throw enough characters at you the idea is that you'll like enough of them to stick around and keep watching the show.

I won't go into the whole American company vs Worldwide company thing either, just to say that it's only fair to say that the WWE has millions of American fans that watch or go to RAW every week. Most of them are the "overly patriotic Americans" that people have talked about in this thread and this story speaks to them. I mean I'd even go as far to say while he's still not over with the entire audience by a long shot this story has gotten Cena more favorable reactions than he's received in a long time. That means on at least some level this story is working and isn't completely cringeworthy.

[Everlong]

I understand national pride. I've experienced it myself. There are aspects of my country and its people that make me proud to be Irish. But I'd never call it "the greatest country in the world". Nobody here would.

Duh, that's cus the greatest country in the world is AMERICA

[Tom]

For the record there's nothing I can't stand more than somebody outside a group telling a group how they should feel about something or what they should, how they should react. It just comes off as a gigantic judgmental arrogance that bugs me to all hell.

yeah we are proud people and we like to feel good about our country being better than others, so what? I feel sorry for you that you can't have that same pride.

I think what's pissing people off in this case is that it's being inflicted on the rest of us too. A global audience is expected to get behind Cena's conquering of Russia on behalf of all proud Americans. But realistically everyone who isn't American doesn't have a horse in the race and will therefore find it hard to care. It would be a lot easier to invest in the angle if it wasn't based so heavily around patriotism. Even if it was more focused on being against certain Russian values, that would make it easier for other fans to invest. Instead the focus lies more on how great America is.

And yeah, I know we've been around and around on the whole American company/International company bit, but it is an international company with international fans who are entitled to their own opinions - even on the angles that aren't for them. And I understand that you're annoyed at the Europeans for complaining about being left out in the cold so often. I even sympathise to an extent. But it doesn't make those complaints any less justified, and it doesn't make your irritation equal to their feelings of neglect.

Stories like this one don't just leave the non-Americans with little to invest in. They can often rub them up the wrong way too. Constant references to America being the "Greatest country in the world" can be irritating to non-Americans. When Cena starts saying that stuff, I find myself wondering if there are young fans watching in Europe or Canada or wherever else, feeling like they're being excluded by their hero.

Leaving the WWE behind for a minute, there is a difference between national pride and American patriotism. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, so I apologise in advance if this causes any offense. This can be a prickly subject with some people. But from the outside looking in, Americans seem to have a strange relationship with their country. They might think the same thing about us, and that's completely understandable. But from our perspective, Americans seem a lot more patriotic than most other countries in the Western world, and the language that they use when discussing their country can be quite over the top.

I understand national pride. I've experienced it myself. There are aspects of my country and its people that make me proud to be Irish. But I'd never call it "the greatest country in the world". Nobody here would. The same probably goes for most Western countries outside of America. You know what the best country in the world really is? No, you don't. And neither does anybody else, because it would be completely impossible to quantify. No country is perfect. It's easy for these comments to grate on the non-Americans if they're subjected to them for long enough.

I enjoy my freedom also, but I don't trumpet Irish freedom constantly as if we invented the concept, or as if we're the only country offering it at present. This is another point that can read as quite condescending.

Now I'm not trying to judge Americans or America here, or criticize their way of doing things. I'm just trying to explain that it differs from other countries and that's a big part of why these kinds of patriotic storylines don't work for us.

Pretty much said what I was going to say. WWE is a global company. Fair enough, their shows mainly take place in America. But they are broadcast live in many more countries across the world. Millions upon millions watch the product across the globe. This is something that WWE very rarely take into account when booking storylines in my opinion.

It's the same when a celebrity shows up on WWE television. 90% of the time it is some presenter who the global audience probably haven't got a clue who he/she is because they are shown on US television. Why would I be invested in that particular segment? Why should I watch a segment about a guy who I have no idea who he/she is? It's one of the reasons the guest host concept was met with disapproval outside of America. But it was probably the same in America while the concept was broadcast in the UK for a week because it was likely the American's didn't know who the guest host in the UK was.

They may get away with it should Rusev focus more on his Russian beliefs as opposed to bashing America the entire time. I don't follow politics much but from the sounds of things Vladimir Putin seems like a rather hated figure across many parts of the world. I'm sure there's a lot of material to garner the interest of the global audience. They may have even got away with it had they got Rusev to try and degrade the United States title and try make it a Russian based one. It's still focused on America but it would have been something different, and at least the US title is something the global audience see on a weekly basis on television. It's supposed to be a championship that people can get invested in!

[DBSoT]

Even though I am over the patriotism angle, this issue has been discussed to death and I am inclined to believe that @Porkchop is trolling the US posters. Especially after the concending post towards @Legend for just saying "No."