Chuck Pagano throwing Andrew Luck under the bus

[Everlong]

Quotes of his from after the game:


"He's got to take care of the ball. Can't turn the damn ball over. It's not that hard. It's not trigonometry"

Pagano on Luck and colts leaky O-line: 'Been the case for 3 years now, has it not? Should be more than comfortable dealing with (it).'


Damn. Pretty shitty of a coach to throw a player under the bus like that. This makes me think it's more than likely Pagano will actually be gone from Indy after this season. You can't lose your cool like that as a head coach and expect to keep the loyalty of your players, especially a guy who's been heralded as the "next big thing" for several years now.


Also, just for the sake of discussion: What do you guys think about Andrew Luck? Is he actually a top 5 QB as so many people say? He seems to turn the ball over far too much to be classified as such. And I believe I read that after two weeks he now has the lowest QB rating of all the starters in the league.

[The Legend]

I have almost no problem with the first quote from Pagano. He's right, you can't turn the ball over that many times in a game and expect to win. Now the second quote is absolute garbage and I'd expect to hear him back away from it big time today.

As for Luck, it's a two-sided coin. He turns the ball over waaayyyy tooooo much. I mean it's sad how many times he turns it over, but by the same token different side. If I was running a team and we were to do a re-draft of all the quarterbacks under 30 years old, Andrew Luck would be at the top of my draft board. That probably says as much about the state of young quarterbacks and the relationship of spread college football to traditional NFL styles though.

But ultimately that probably puts him right on the edge of a top 5 QB, behind Brady, Rodgers and Roethlisberger and mixed in a clump with a whole bunch of other guys.

[DBSoT]

The second quote is really shitty and makes Pagano look so much worst. It is his job to help fix the O-line so Luck stays up right. If its still bad after 3 years then its Pagano's fault. I still believe Luck is a top 5 QB. Revis has made many a talented QB look average. I do believe that if Luck had a better O-line or run game his turnovers would drop off considerably. He isn't Rodgers or Brady yet, but he is still top 5.

[Messiah]

Andrew Luck is a borderline horrible decision maker. The amount of mind-boggling throws he made last night when Jets applied pressure was staggering. It isn't like we're dealing with an immobile quarterback either. He's far too hesitant to try to shed/escape the sack. For example, on that Revis interception. He just throws the ball up in the air at him? He had a couple of other dropped interceptions and this isn't some one-time thing with him. IIRC, he's led the league in dropped interceptions since he has entered the NFL.

Luck is a good QB but someone on another forum made a comparison I never thought of but I can kind of see now. He's Favre-lite. Favre had a penchant for making insane throws like Luck does and both were fun QBs to watch. Favre also had underrated mobility. However, both had a tendency to make a lot of boneheaded mistakes or try to do too much. Is this something that Luck will correct or is it just who he is? I'm not sure.

I can't say I'm too bothered that Pagano threw him under the bus though. I'm sick and tired of Luck getting more excuses than any other quarterback. The announcers legit said before the start of halftime that it was everyone around Luck that was why they were struggling. I couldn't believe it. It's funny to me because Newton has one of the worst offensive lines in the game, Ted Ginn as his best wide receiver, and is leading his team in rushing (AGAIN) and yet when he has a down game, everyone blasts him for it. And yeah, it annoys me because the double standard the media has for their golden boy is fucking insane.

[Everlong]

^I do still think Andrew Luck is a better player than Cam Newton. But I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that the best QB from the 2012 draft class is, as much as I can't stand the guy, Russell Wilson.

[Messiah]

I agree Luck is better than Newton, I'm just saying Newton doesn't get the same amount of excuses as Luck does. People, like the ESPN crew before the game, will still say Luck needs more help around him. Gore (who has looked damn good this year), Hilton, Moncrief, Johnson (albeit clearly declined), Fleener, Allen, hell even Dorsett... Cam would kill for that kind of cast. The best wide receiver on the Panthers wouldn't make the Colts 53-man roster.

[Everlong]

I agree Luck is better than Newton, I'm just saying Newton doesn't get the same amount of excuses as Luck does. People, like the ESPN crew before the game, will still say Luck needs more help around him. Gore (who has looked damn good this year), Hilton, Moncrief, Johnson (albeit clearly declined), Fleener, Allen, hell even Dorsett... Cam would kill for that kind of cast.

Ah yeah I getcha. But yeah the media's had it out for Newton since he was in college, while Luck has been getting the Golden Boy treatment since he was like 19 years old. Not particularly surprising, but still shitty.

I just don't understand how Carolina has been so bad about giving Newton pieces to work with. Even with a healthy Kelvin Benjamin the guy just has no help.

[The Legend]

^I do still think Andrew Luck is a better player than Cam Newton. But I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that the best QB from the 2012 draft class is, as much as I can't stand the guy, Russell Wilson.

I can't believe you don't like Russell Wilson. I thought you Badgers were all supposed to stick together.

[Everlong]

^I do still think Andrew Luck is a better player than Cam Newton. But I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that the best QB from the 2012 draft class is, as much as I can't stand the guy, Russell Wilson.

I can't believe you don't like Russell Wilson. I thought you Badgers were all supposed to stick together.

He was a rental badger, there for one year. But besides that, he's just fake as hell. Everything he says sounds like it comes from a public relations textbook. I don't think I've ever seen a player who comes off as being less genuine than him. That always rubs me the wrong way.

[Messiah]

Russell Wilson is just too damn humble. I never thought I would ever say that but I can't stand him. There might not be a player in the NFL I root more against than him.

And then he tries to convince people that his miracle (aka scam) water helps heal you. I hate Russell Wilson. I would rather Luck win a Super Bowl (multiple, even) than see him succeed more than he has.

[The Legend]

LOL, wow, just wow. I mean Russell Wilson is about the only player for the Seahawks that I find it defensible to root for. Jimmy Graham now too I guess, but he just got there. I also find the he's too nice or he does too many of the right things argument against anybody to be laughable.

[Everlong]

There are plenty of guys who seem genuinely nice that I enjoy rooting for. But it seems so staged all the time with Russell Wilson, it's hard for me to take it seriously. And that's a popular opinion among other players, too.

If we're just talking about QBs, a guy like Tony Romo, for example, seems like a really genuinely nice person. It's impossible for me to root against the guy, even though he's a Cowboy.

[HFX]

I think the worst part of that quote is he considers Trigonometry hard. If he said Calculus I could see it but the only people I've met who've struggled with Trig are the real stupid students.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

I agree Luck is better than Newton, I'm just saying Newton doesn't get the same amount of excuses as Luck does. People, like the ESPN crew before the game, will still say Luck needs more help around him. Gore (who has looked damn good this year), Hilton, Moncrief, Johnson (albeit clearly declined), Fleener, Allen, hell even Dorsett... Cam would kill for that kind of cast. The best wide receiver on the Panthers wouldn't make the Colts 53-man roster.

You can stack up as many pro bowl receivers you want but it doesn't mean shit if you constantly have an offensive line that's ranked in the bottom 10 for the past 4-5 years.

Elite quarterbacks usually have good offensive lines, I wonder why that is.

[Everlong]

Elite quarterbacks usually have good offensive lines, I wonder why that is.

Aaron Rodgers had one of the league's worst offensive lines until 2014.

Ben Roethlisberger has had awful offensive lines for most of his career.

A really good offensive line definitely helps a lot, but a truly elite quarterback will still be outstanding with lower tier lines.

Andrew Luck's struggles with turnovers and low completion percentage can partially be attributed to a bad line, I'd agree. But he also needs to learn better decision making skills and know when he needs to stop pressing to try to make something happen.

[Messiah]

I agree Luck is better than Newton, I'm just saying Newton doesn't get the same amount of excuses as Luck does. People, like the ESPN crew before the game, will still say Luck needs more help around him. Gore (who has looked damn good this year), Hilton, Moncrief, Johnson (albeit clearly declined), Fleener, Allen, hell even Dorsett... Cam would kill for that kind of cast. The best wide receiver on the Panthers wouldn't make the Colts 53-man roster.

You can stack up as many pro bowl receivers you want but it doesn't mean shit if you constantly have an offensive line that's ranked in the bottom 10 for the past 4-5 years.

Elite quarterbacks usually have good offensive lines, I wonder why that is.

Newton's offensive line sucks too so that is still irrelevant to my point.

And having a bad offensive line still doesn't excuse having more turnovers than touchdown.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

Elite quarterbacks usually have good offensive lines, I wonder why that is.

Aaron Rodgers had one of the league's worst offensive lines until 2014.

Ben Roethlisberger has had awful offensive lines for most of his career.

A really good offensive line definitely helps a lot, but a truly elite quarterback will still be outstanding with lower tier lines.

Andrew Luck's struggles with turnovers and low completion percentage can partially be attributed to a bad line, I'd agree. But he also needs to learn better decision making skills and know when he needs to stop pressing to try to make something happen.

I agree, he does need better decision making skills. I think he always wants to convert those 2nd and longs or 3rd and longs so he always throws a deep bomb instead of hitting his check down. I think his decision making skills can be improved because that is something that can be taught. I just feel that there's really no one in our coaching staff that can progress him to reach that elite level.

If you look at history, every elite QB had a mentor/coach that really helped their development. We've been gifted a QB with so much potential yet we have no one that can utilize that potential. Where would Peyton be without Tom Moore? Brady without BB? etc.

I think the main problem with our coaching staff is that they expect Luck to carry them to victory yet he hasn't developed into the player that can constantly bail you out of shitty situations like a Brady or Rodgers can do.