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Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Feb 11, '15, 1:32 pm

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Maybe it was the absurdly nonfunctional shutter shades or the audacious (and, let’s be real, honest) Taylor Swift interruption, but at some point in pop culture, Kanye West became a punch line. When he sat down with The New York Times’ Jon Caramanica for a rare, rather lengthy interview, the responses were predictable. Various media roundups* characterized his quotes as “ridiculous,” “textbook-crazy,” “obnoxious,” and, well, you get the point.** All of this makes me wonder if anyone actually read the interview, because he talks about (and complicates) the very thing that others so boringly mock him for: his vanity. I’m not here to convince you to love Kanye’s music or to love him as a figure. What I am interested in talking about, and what I think is often overlooked, is how race affects the way people perceive and respond to his vanity. Kanye is a part of a long tradition of black artists for whom self-love is a political act.

The concept of vanity is so rooted in the idea of a singular narcissist that it can be hard to catch that Kanye speaks almost from a populist perspective — a populist narcissism, if you will. Granted, the thematic focus on community vs. the personal has evolved from College Dropout to Yeezus, but take a second and remember the very first song on Kanye’s first album. He has a chorus of children singing, “We wasn’t supposed to make it past 25 / Joke’s on you, we still alive / Throw your hands up in the sky / And say we don’t care what people say.” If you chalk up his “we don’t care what people say” attitude to simply his ego, then you have missed the point entirely. This isn’t about ego; this is about boldly asserting yourself in a world that is not meant for you. This is a vanity that is rooted in bringing the community up with you. To the ire of some who are so wrapped up in the anxiety of respectability, the message he gives the kids (in front of all these white folks who are listening to his music!) is not to be modest but to unapologetically laugh in the face of a world that does not care about them. The joke’s on you, white America. We made it, and we don’t even have the decency to be grateful. We’re laughing. We dare to laugh.

This is why it’s so critical to really think about how and why folks are calling him “crazy.” There’s a great Dave Chappelle quote from his Inside the Actors Studio interview that really gets to the heart of this. In a conversation about the difficulties of black celebrity life, Chappelle explains, “The worst thing to call somebody is ‘crazy.’ It’s dismissive. ‘I don’t understand this person. So they’re crazy.’ That’s bullshit.” To continuously label what Kanye says as “crazy” is to dismiss him as not worth understanding and to flatten his deeply complex work and complex personality. Kanye told Rolling Stone in 2004, “I’m the rap version of Dave Chappelle. I’m not sayin’ I’m nearly as talented as Chappelle when it comes to political and social commentary, but like him, I’m laughing to keep from crying.” “Laughing to keep from crying” is a tone that captures so much of both of their work, but it’s also a survival mantra. Originating with Langston Hughes, this expression encapsulates a history of black artists who have used wit and satire to capture their exasperations and make light of the world’s absurdities. The humor shouldn’t be overlooked here; people seem to miss that Kanye is very tongue-in-cheek, that he is constantly making jokes. As Vulture’s Jody Rosen puts it, “Anyone who gets riled up about ‘I Am a God,’ or about the album’s title, is missing the joke — or rather, taking the bait. More than ever, West is aiming to provoke.” Yes, and also, sometimes he’s just making fun of you.

The jokes are fun, but the difficulty and power of his vanity cannot be emphasized enough. To assert that, despite the boundaries of a racist world that strangles your very view of what is possible, you are still going to be out here stuntin’ on everyone, that you will love yourself and love yourself excessively, is powerful beyond measure. And as many black artists have said before, for black folks to love themselves is a political act. The poet Audre Lorde captures it best: “Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare.” Kanye’s “vanity” is meant to be inspiring; it is not a mindless arrogance but it is pointed and intentional. One of the most compelling things he says in his Times interview is that he views his work, in some ways, as an extension of the fight for justice of the activists and artists who came before him. In their traditions but also in his own way, he is fighting for justice: “I’m going to use my platform to tell people that they’re not being fair… Justice. And when you say justice, it doesn’t have to be war. Justice could just be clearing a path for people to dream properly.”

Kanye’s infatuation with the sartorial world is also important to consider in the light of the black artists who came before him. As Monica Miller points out in the fascinating Slaves to Fashion: Black Dandyism and the Styling of Black Diasporic Identity, there is a long history of black artists who use fashion, art, and a couture-level interest in looking beautiful and self-fashioning as a powerful tool of self-actualization. From as far back as the slaves who dressed in their Sunday best to the black dandies of the English Enlightenment, from the luminaries of the Harlem Renaissance to the greats of the Jazz Age and to contemporaries like Andre 3000, black artists have used art and fashion to re-imagine the possibilities of what it means to be black, of what is possible and imaginable for black identities. This play with dandyism is both about an individual’s self-image and about how they are regarded, it is personal and political, and it is within the community and about the dynamics outside it. Kanye is very aware of this history and this balance between the political and the beautiful has been characteristic of his discography. He tells the Times, “That’s how I was raised. I am in the lineage of Gil Scott-Heron, great activist-type artists. But I’m also in the lineage of a Miles Davis — you know, that liked nice things also.”

Conversations that take Kanye’s vanity as a given annoyance obfuscate the fact that Kanye has helped change the game entirely for how black men are allowed to express their vulnerabilities in public. In the Times interview, he talks about how, in the public’s imagination, “the idea of Kanye and vanity are like, synonymous.” He goes on to explain, however: “But I’ve put myself in a lot of places where a vain person wouldn’t put themselves in. Like what’s vanity about wearing a kilt?” If you see him simply as a crazy egomaniac, you’ve taken away his right to be a dimensional human being. You miss the moments when he is so boldly asserting his vulnerabilities, his anxieties, his humanity — the times he is placing his bare self on the line as an artist. This bravado mixed with a deeply sincere self-reflectiveness has characterized his career from the very beginning. It began with the earnest confessions of his first single and grew to become to an entire album where he sings — despite openly acknowleging he’s a horrible singer — about heartbreak. It’s hard to imagine the sappy crooning of Drake or the angsty emo rap of Kid Cudi existing if it weren’t for Kanye. And, to return to the sartorial for a moment, notice how in that quote, he articulates his expression of vulnerability in terms of fashion choices, in terms of a leather kilt. He’s keenly aware of the way black identity, and black masculinity in particular, is wedded to an image, a static image, and he purposefully plays with that.

All of this is obviously not to say that Kanye is immune from criticism or that I, myself, have never side-eyed things he has said or done. But ultimately, I am grateful for the space that his bold and unapologetically vain work has created for black artists, for black children, for dreamers. On a more fundamental level, this conversation begs the question, how much pride is allowed for one person? At what point does being proud of yourself turn into being “too vain”? Who decides? Kanye has just dropped Yeezus, an incredibly dense and complicated album that revels in a dark spiral of introspection mixed with the political articulations and sonic embellishing that is so characteristic of his canon. His work continues to refuse an easy reading, and this album boldly proclaims that he is someone you must pay attention to. You don’t have to love it, but you will respect it.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/in-defe ... .ck7o6V3Q4

I would've used my own words but I ran into an article and tweets that've pretty much summarized my thoughts perfectly and take a deep look into people's obsession to hate Kanye West.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Everlong » Feb 11, '15, 1:33 pm

This Horatio Bandz guy seems like a tool.
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YOU HEARD IT FROM TAJ FIRST FOLKS
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 11, '15, 1:39 pm

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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Daz » Feb 11, '15, 1:46 pm

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:Image
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Maybe it was the absurdly nonfunctional shutter shades or the audacious (and, let’s be real, honest) Taylor Swift interruption, but at some point in pop culture, Kanye West became a punch line. When he sat down with The New York Times’ Jon Caramanica for a rare, rather lengthy interview, the responses were predictable. Various media roundups* characterized his quotes as “ridiculous,” “textbook-crazy,” “obnoxious,” and, well, you get the point.** All of this makes me wonder if anyone actually read the interview, because he talks about (and complicates) the very thing that others so boringly mock him for: his vanity. I’m not here to convince you to love Kanye’s music or to love him as a figure. What I am interested in talking about, and what I think is often overlooked, is how race affects the way people perceive and respond to his vanity. Kanye is a part of a long tradition of black artists for whom self-love is a political act.

The concept of vanity is so rooted in the idea of a singular narcissist that it can be hard to catch that Kanye speaks almost from a populist perspective — a populist narcissism, if you will. Granted, the thematic focus on community vs. the personal has evolved from College Dropout to Yeezus, but take a second and remember the very first song on Kanye’s first album. He has a chorus of children singing, “We wasn’t supposed to make it past 25 / Joke’s on you, we still alive / Throw your hands up in the sky / And say we don’t care what people say.” If you chalk up his “we don’t care what people say” attitude to simply his ego, then you have missed the point entirely. This isn’t about ego; this is about boldly asserting yourself in a world that is not meant for you. This is a vanity that is rooted in bringing the community up with you. To the ire of some who are so wrapped up in the anxiety of respectability, the message he gives the kids (in front of all these white folks who are listening to his music!) is not to be modest but to unapologetically laugh in the face of a world that does not care about them. The joke’s on you, white America. We made it, and we don’t even have the decency to be grateful. We’re laughing. We dare to laugh.

This is why it’s so critical to really think about how and why folks are calling him “crazy.” There’s a great Dave Chappelle quote from his Inside the Actors Studio interview that really gets to the heart of this. In a conversation about the difficulties of black celebrity life, Chappelle explains, “The worst thing to call somebody is ‘crazy.’ It’s dismissive. ‘I don’t understand this person. So they’re crazy.’ That’s bullshit.” To continuously label what Kanye says as “crazy” is to dismiss him as not worth understanding and to flatten his deeply complex work and complex personality. Kanye told Rolling Stone in 2004, “I’m the rap version of Dave Chappelle. I’m not sayin’ I’m nearly as talented as Chappelle when it comes to political and social commentary, but like him, I’m laughing to keep from crying.” “Laughing to keep from crying” is a tone that captures so much of both of their work, but it’s also a survival mantra. Originating with Langston Hughes, this expression encapsulates a history of black artists who have used wit and satire to capture their exasperations and make light of the world’s absurdities. The humor shouldn’t be overlooked here; people seem to miss that Kanye is very tongue-in-cheek, that he is constantly making jokes. As Vulture’s Jody Rosen puts it, “Anyone who gets riled up about ‘I Am a God,’ or about the album’s title, is missing the joke — or rather, taking the bait. More than ever, West is aiming to provoke.” Yes, and also, sometimes he’s just making fun of you.

The jokes are fun, but the difficulty and power of his vanity cannot be emphasized enough. To assert that, despite the boundaries of a racist world that strangles your very view of what is possible, you are still going to be out here stuntin’ on everyone, that you will love yourself and love yourself excessively, is powerful beyond measure. And as many black artists have said before, for black folks to love themselves is a political act. The poet Audre Lorde captures it best: “Caring for myself is not self-indulgence, it is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare.” Kanye’s “vanity” is meant to be inspiring; it is not a mindless arrogance but it is pointed and intentional. One of the most compelling things he says in his Times interview is that he views his work, in some ways, as an extension of the fight for justice of the activists and artists who came before him. In their traditions but also in his own way, he is fighting for justice: “I’m going to use my platform to tell people that they’re not being fair… Justice. And when you say justice, it doesn’t have to be war. Justice could just be clearing a path for people to dream properly.”

Kanye’s infatuation with the sartorial world is also important to consider in the light of the black artists who came before him. As Monica Miller points out in the fascinating Slaves to Fashion: Black Dandyism and the Styling of Black Diasporic Identity, there is a long history of black artists who use fashion, art, and a couture-level interest in looking beautiful and self-fashioning as a powerful tool of self-actualization. From as far back as the slaves who dressed in their Sunday best to the black dandies of the English Enlightenment, from the luminaries of the Harlem Renaissance to the greats of the Jazz Age and to contemporaries like Andre 3000, black artists have used art and fashion to re-imagine the possibilities of what it means to be black, of what is possible and imaginable for black identities. This play with dandyism is both about an individual’s self-image and about how they are regarded, it is personal and political, and it is within the community and about the dynamics outside it. Kanye is very aware of this history and this balance between the political and the beautiful has been characteristic of his discography. He tells the Times, “That’s how I was raised. I am in the lineage of Gil Scott-Heron, great activist-type artists. But I’m also in the lineage of a Miles Davis — you know, that liked nice things also.”

Conversations that take Kanye’s vanity as a given annoyance obfuscate the fact that Kanye has helped change the game entirely for how black men are allowed to express their vulnerabilities in public. In the Times interview, he talks about how, in the public’s imagination, “the idea of Kanye and vanity are like, synonymous.” He goes on to explain, however: “But I’ve put myself in a lot of places where a vain person wouldn’t put themselves in. Like what’s vanity about wearing a kilt?” If you see him simply as a crazy egomaniac, you’ve taken away his right to be a dimensional human being. You miss the moments when he is so boldly asserting his vulnerabilities, his anxieties, his humanity — the times he is placing his bare self on the line as an artist. This bravado mixed with a deeply sincere self-reflectiveness has characterized his career from the very beginning. It began with the earnest confessions of his first single and grew to become to an entire album where he sings — despite openly acknowleging he’s a horrible singer — about heartbreak. It’s hard to imagine the sappy crooning of Drake or the angsty emo rap of Kid Cudi existing if it weren’t for Kanye. And, to return to the sartorial for a moment, notice how in that quote, he articulates his expression of vulnerability in terms of fashion choices, in terms of a leather kilt. He’s keenly aware of the way black identity, and black masculinity in particular, is wedded to an image, a static image, and he purposefully plays with that.

All of this is obviously not to say that Kanye is immune from criticism or that I, myself, have never side-eyed things he has said or done. But ultimately, I am grateful for the space that his bold and unapologetically vain work has created for black artists, for black children, for dreamers. On a more fundamental level, this conversation begs the question, how much pride is allowed for one person? At what point does being proud of yourself turn into being “too vain”? Who decides? Kanye has just dropped Yeezus, an incredibly dense and complicated album that revels in a dark spiral of introspection mixed with the political articulations and sonic embellishing that is so characteristic of his canon. His work continues to refuse an easy reading, and this album boldly proclaims that he is someone you must pay attention to. You don’t have to love it, but you will respect it.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/in-defe ... .ck7o6V3Q4

I would've used my own words but I ran into an article and tweets that've pretty much summarized my thoughts perfectly and take a deep look into people's obsession to hate Kanye West.


You're really only re-enforcing my opinion on Kanye with this type of bullshit. I mean come on, this paragraph alone...

"Kanye has just dropped Yeezus, an incredibly dense and complicated album that revels in a dark spiral of introspection mixed with the political articulations and sonic embellishing that is so characteristic of his canon. His work continues to refuse an easy reading, and this album boldly proclaims that he is someone you must pay attention to. You don’t have to love it, but you will respect it"

I don't have to respect. Even if it was the best piece of music/art that had ever been conceived by man, I wouldn't respect it, because he called it fucking Yeezus and the album features a song called "I am God". To what point or purpose? It just reeks of vanity, and trying to poetically justify everything he does only makes his most ardent fans reek of the seem idiocy.

It's one thing to have talent, influence and to inspire a minority to better themselves, but there's no need to be a prick about it. Once you do, you stop being about those things and fall into self parody. Something Kanye West hasn't figured out yet.
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Last edited by Daz on Feb 11, '15, 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 11, '15, 1:48 pm

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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby The Legend » Feb 11, '15, 2:10 pm

Messiah wrote:It is Best Album, not "best album with fewest songwriters, producers, composers, etc."


That's all great and what not, but if you are going to talk about artistry like Kanye did to compare the albums, I'm sorry, but the person that can play their own instruments, write their own songs, compose their own music on top of singing those songs is just factually the more complete and yes better artist.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 11, '15, 4:57 pm

The Legend wrote:just factually the more complete and yes better artist.


Factually the better artist? Factually? No, Beck is not factually a better artist than Beyonce.

When did determining the better artist come down to who plays more instruments or who produces their own music? Dr. Dre produced and rapped two critically acclaimed albums in The Chronic and 2001. Nobody mentions Dre as one of the top tier artists of all-time, because he isn't. Why? Because we have ALWAYS judged who the better artist is based off their quality, not what they do behind the scenes and Dre, for as great as he is at producing, is not for example a better rapper/artist/whatever fellow NWA member Ice Cube. With all due respect to Beck, I couldn't care less how many instruments he can play. Don't care that he produces his own music. Kudos to him. At the end of the day, the final product is what matters the most. If you want to argue Beck's music is of higher quality than Beyonce's, go right ahead. Music, especially across-genres, is very much so opinion-based. Not gonna knock you if you think that because I would be lying if I said I have listened to Beck before.

Some of you make it seem as if artists producing their own music, playing a shit-load of instruments, etc. is commonplace in the music business. It isn't.

Tupac Shakur didn't produce his albums, Tupac Shakur didn't play any instruments (or if he did, not well enough for it to matter). Is Beck factually a better artist than Tupac Shakur?

Nas didn't produce his albums, Nas didn't play any instruments (or if he did, not well enough for it to matter). Is Beck factually a better artist than Nas?

I guess Beck is factually a better artist (or on the same level as) than Michael Jackson too. Jackson didn't play his instruments, Jackson wasn't the sole producer on his albums.

Elvis Presley didn't produce his albums and had people write his songs. Beck is factually better than him too, right?

Beck is factually better than The Beatles too, because The Beatles didn't produce their albums and 4 heads is greater than 1. Unless if that 1 head is Beck, I guess.

You get the point. Beck very well could be more talented than Beyonce. Appears to possess a lot of skills, good for him. But that doesn't make him the better artist and certainly doesn't make it anywhere near close to a fact. Coming from someone who couldn't have given two shits about her beforehand, Beyonce was a magnificent album. Unique and refreshing, it was fantastic. It isn't like Kanye is the only one who felt she should have won.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 11, '15, 5:05 pm

Even if I would play along and say that does make Beck better. It is still irrelevant. It is Best Album, all that extra stuff doesn't matter.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby The Legend » Feb 11, '15, 5:12 pm

Messiah wrote:Even if I would play along and say that does make Beck better. It is still irrelevant. It is Best Album, all that extra stuff doesn't matter.


I don't consider a person who simply walks in front of a microphone and simply parrots back words given to them much of an artist. Could they be a great singer? Sure, they could have a great voice, but an artist CREATES ART. Writing lyrics, composing music, playing instruments are all critical parts of the process of creating songs/albums that are art.

I perfectly understand that the Grammys don't take that into account and they simply give awards to singers for the songs they sing, but Kanye was the one introduced ART and ARTISTRY into the discussion and therefore this becomes relevant.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 11, '15, 5:13 pm

The Legend wrote:
Messiah wrote:Even if I would play along and say that does make Beck better. It is still irrelevant. It is Best Album, all that extra stuff doesn't matter.


I don't consider a person who simply walks in front of a microphone and simply parrots back words given to them much of an artist.


So is Beck factually better than Elvis?
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Viazon » Feb 11, '15, 5:57 pm

I felt it was time I gave my two cents on the matter.

@DanielsonTHAGOAT. We get it. You like Kanye. Cool. No one finds anything wrong with that. I am not too familiar with much of his stuff, but a person doesn't receive all this acclaim for no reason. So when people, like yourself, say how amazing he is, I believe them. No one here as anything against you because you are a fan. However, is it such a hard thing to accept that the man is a giant tool? Just because you like him, doesn't mean he isn't. You can still like someones work even though they are a jerk.

I don't get why you get so annoyed when people call him a douchebag after he does douche like stuff. Anyone would think we have insulted your family. Defend his music as much as you want. But you can't defend him after people claim he is a dick. You can't. You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't. You just can't. Because he is. Simply put.

All of those tweets or whatever they were from that guy and that article you posted seemed like they were done by people exactly like you. People who love his music so much you can't accept the fact that he is a twat. You talk about peoples obsession with hating him. So what? He is immune to criticism now? People can't mention that he is a dick when he has been acting like a dick? When people note on how much of a dick he is, you are basically saying that it is because we are obsessed with hating him and it has nothing to do with the fact that he actually is a dick. No. It's because he's a dick.

Normal people don't do the things he does. I have known some questionable people in my time but I don't believe I have ever known anyone with the balls or the audacity the interrupt people on stage when they have won an award to tell them they think someone else should have won. How do you possibly defend that? I hear a person do that and I think, what an arsehole. Also, what kind of person throws a hissy fit and bitches and moans whenever he doesn't win awards? Most decent people would be respectable of the others who win and congratulate them but not him. Why? Because he's a dick.

The guy may be a great musician and everything but the man is a cunt. Deal with it.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby The Legend » Feb 11, '15, 6:20 pm

Messiah wrote:
The Legend wrote:
Messiah wrote:Even if I would play along and say that does make Beck better. It is still irrelevant. It is Best Album, all that extra stuff doesn't matter.


I don't consider a person who simply walks in front of a microphone and simply parrots back words given to them much of an artist.


So is Beck factually better than Elvis?


At being a more well-rounded and complete artist, who creates art from start to finish, yes.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 11, '15, 6:30 pm

Well that ends my time in this thread.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Locke » Feb 11, '15, 7:20 pm

Viazon wrote:I felt it was time I gave my two cents on the matter.

@DanielsonTHAGOAT. We get it. You like Kanye. Cool. No one finds anything wrong with that. I am not too familiar with much of his stuff, but a person doesn't receive all this acclaim for no reason. So when people, like yourself, say how amazing he is, I believe them. No one here as anything against you because you are a fan. However, is it such a hard thing to accept that the man is a giant tool? Just because you like him, doesn't mean he isn't. You can still like someones work even though they are a jerk.

I don't get why you get so annoyed when people call him a douchebag after he does douche like stuff. Anyone would think we have insulted your family. Defend his music as much as you want. But you can't defend him after people claim he is a dick. You can't. You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't. You just can't. Because he is. Simply put.

All of those tweets or whatever they were from that guy and that article you posted seemed like they were done by people exactly like you. People who love his music so much you can't accept the fact that he is a twat. You talk about peoples obsession with hating him. So what? He is immune to criticism now? People can't mention that he is a dick when he has been acting like a dick? When people note on how much of a dick he is, you are basically saying that it is because we are obsessed with hating him and it has nothing to do with the fact that he actually is a dick. No. It's because he's a dick.

Normal people don't do the things he does. I have known some questionable people in my time but I don't believe I have ever known anyone with the balls or the audacity the interrupt people on stage when they have won an award to tell them they think someone else should have won. How do you possibly defend that? I hear a person do that and I think, what an arsehole. Also, what kind of person throws a hissy fit and bitches and moans whenever he doesn't win awards? Most decent people would be respectable of the others who win and congratulate them but not him. Why? Because he's a dick.

The guy may be a great musician and everything but the man is a cunt. Deal with it.


*channels inner Dave Chapelle* GAW DAYAM!
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Feb 11, '15, 8:48 pm

Viazon wrote:I felt it was time I gave my two cents on the matter.

@DanielsonTHAGOAT. We get it. You like Kanye. Cool. No one finds anything wrong with that. I am not too familiar with much of his stuff, but a person doesn't receive all this acclaim for no reason. So when people, like yourself, say how amazing he is, I believe them. No one here as anything against you because you are a fan. However, is it such a hard thing to accept that the man is a giant tool? Just because you like him, doesn't mean he isn't. You can still like someones work even though they are a jerk.

I don't get why you get so annoyed when people call him a douchebag after he does douche like stuff. Anyone would think we have insulted your family. Defend his music as much as you want. But you can't defend him after people claim he is a dick. You can't. You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't. You just can't. Because he is. Simply put.

The problem is Kanye is called a dick yet no one acknowledges his activism and positivity at all. You would swear he was the spawn of satan just by what's printed in the media. What about the socio political commentaries he has struck among mainstream America pertaining to issues such as consumerism, street violence, racism, etc. He gets marginalized as the "crazy douchebag" when it doesn't even make sense. (Especially in this case when he is 100% correct about the Grammys not respecting artistry.)

There's classes that talk about Kanye and no, these classes taught at universities don't discuss the actual quality of his music but the content of it and the sociological observations of American culture vs. Kanye West.

He also speaks at universities, opened up job markets in his city, and opened up a scholarship fund to help pay for kids education. Why is there no national attention on this?


All of those tweets or whatever they were from that guy and that article you posted seemed like they were done by people exactly like you. People who love his music so much you can't accept the fact that he is a twat. You talk about peoples obsession with hating him. So what? He is immune to criticism now? People can't mention that he is a dick when he has been acting like a dick? When people note on how much of a dick he is, you are basically saying that it is because we are obsessed with hating him and it has nothing to do with the fact that he actually is a dick. No. It's because he's a dick.

It's funny because those articles and tweets weren't even about his actual music. It was about how America is quick to dismiss anything that they don't agree with without even aknowledging the topic at hand. The original topic that I'm debating is whether Kanye is right about the Grammys respecting artistry or not and the truth is they don't. Kanye was honest enough to say that the Grammys have a flawed voting system.

Normal people don't do the things he does. I have known some questionable people in my time but I don't believe I have ever known anyone with the balls or the audacity the interrupt people on stage when they have won an award to tell them they think someone else should have won. How do you possibly defend that? I hear a person do that and I think, what an arsehole. Also, what kind of person throws a hissy fit and bitches and moans whenever he doesn't win awards? Most decent people would be respectable of the others who win and congratulate them but not him. Why? Because he's a dick.

So we're holding a person accountable for something they did nearly 6 years ago and letting it define him as a person? So when he apologized for it and said he was wrong, he still should be held accountable for it? Taylor Swift and Kanye West are planning to record music together, so if she can get over it, why can't the rest of the general public?

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Also I know you're going to bring up the Beck situation to try and rebuttal this point but Kanye clarified his comments and he told reporters that he didn't say Beck doesn't respect artistry, he says the Grammys don't. Beck isn't crying about the incident, in fact he even agreed with Kanye. I don't know why people just want to spin this whole thing against Kanye.

What he said about the Grammys is factual. I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Feb 11, '15, 8:54 pm

Daz wrote:I don't have to respect. Even if it was the best piece of music/art that had ever been conceived by man, I wouldn't respect it, because he called it fucking Yeezus and the album features a song called "I am God". To what point or purpose? It just reeks of vanity, and trying to poetically justify everything he does only makes his most ardent fans reek of the seem idiocy.

If you took the time to break down the project, this is what Yeezus was about.

The title of the album YEEZUS really means Ye-is-us (Ye is Kanye's nickname). This is subtly done on purpose and based on a bible passage

Psalm 82:6:

“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High”

So to break it down; the whole concept of the album is that all people are Gods in their own way because they're his children.

It's an album of self confidence and not just solely about himself. A lot of people judge the book by it's cover without reading it.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Daz » Feb 12, '15, 2:04 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
Daz wrote:I don't have to respect. Even if it was the best piece of music/art that had ever been conceived by man, I wouldn't respect it, because he called it fucking Yeezus and the album features a song called "I am God". To what point or purpose? It just reeks of vanity, and trying to poetically justify everything he does only makes his most ardent fans reek of the seem idiocy.

If you took the time to break down the project, this is what Yeezus was about.

The title of the album YEEZUS really means Ye-is-us (Ye is Kanye's nickname). This is subtly done on purpose and based on a bible passage

Psalm 82:6:

“I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High”

So to break it down; the whole concept of the album is that all people are Gods in their own way because they're his children.

It's an album of self confidence and not just solely about himself. A lot of people judge the book by it's cover without reading it.


Dear christ that's stretching. The word subtle and Kanye West should never be uttered in the same breath. I did listen to his album, and it was fine. Although I found it to be thematically heavy handed and lacking any real substance. One thing that strikes me, is that it's all well and good claiming racial intolerance, talking about being slaves to the industry and all the other bullshit, but when you can't resist dropping in lines about the fancy cars you drive or the expensive mink coat you're trying not to ejaculate on, it kind of muddies your point. Also, let's examine lyrically the theme you claim he's trying to portray...

I am a god
Hurry up with my damn massage
Hurry up with my damn ménage
Get the Porsche out the damn garage
I am a god


I just talked to Jesus
He said, "What up, Yeezus?"
I said, "Shit I'm chillin'
Tryna stack these millions"
I know he the most high
But I am a close high
Mi casa, su casa
That's our cosa nostra
I am a god
I am a god
I am a god


Yes, truly we are all god's children.

Let's be honest with ourselves. His nickname is Yeezy and Yeezus rhymes with Jesus. That's why he named his album that. Any attempt to find deeper meaning in that is just absolute bullshit and a way to save face after negative PR backlash. Let's have a look at a quote like this, in response to the song title "I Am God"

“'I just told you who I thought I was: A god. I just told you. That'’s who I think I am. Would it have been better if I had a song that said "I am a nigger", or if I had a song that said "I am a gangster", or if I had a song that said "I am a pimp"? All those colours and patinas fit better on a person like me, right?”


That's obnoxious, race baiting bollocks. There's no way to respond to that, without coming across poorly. He's backing the interviewer into a corner, to push an agenda against himself, that nobody was thinking to begin with. Nobody wants to oppress Kanye West, nobody fucking could if they did. He's married to a gelatinous fucking replicant devoid of human emotion nobody can escape. I wind up hearing news stories about them as a couple almost every day of my sodding life, despite going out of my way to avoid it, and I hear his sodding music all the time. He's everywhere, an fair play to him, he had the talent to make it happen. But to call yourself a god is just fucking obnoxious. I don't even believe in god and I think it's a silly thing to do. To put yourself over to the degree he does, is fucking beyond a joke, and whether you're a fan or you aren't, you should have the good sense to see that.

He's also drawing on the very racial stereotypes he addresses in "New Slaves" when he says the labels of "ganster", "nigger" and "pimp" fit a person like him better. He's perpetuating the very fucking thing he defames in the damn song. Which is kind of defeating the bloody point isn't it? Also, if you dress like a pimp in every music video you ever produce, reference violence and the cosa nostra like a gangster, and say nigger every third line of every song you put out ... you're kind of inviting it on yourself. Frankly I think the labels "pretentious cunt", "egotistical wanker", and "dickhead" fit him better, but then again, I'm just a white guy with no racial agenda against anyone to push, or an album with a controversial title to sell. So what do I know?

I'm losing sight of my original point, which coincidentally is how I felt about most of Kanye's last album, so to get back on topic - Nobody is spinning this incident against Kanye. There's no conspiracy or obsession. He jumped up on stage whilst someone else was accepting an award ... that's a dickhead thing to do, no matter who you are. Sure, he may have done it as a joke, but that doesn't stop it from being a dickhead thing to fucking do. He made the moment about him, when it wasn't about him. Which is really par the course for Kanye West. The comment about artistry is just misguided. This argument going on about who is the better artist, Beck or Beyonce, is irrelevant, but I'll weigh in, cause I've come this bloody far...

If you write your write your own music, play the instruments in said music, produce said music and pretty much do everything from top to bottom yourself... you're a better artist. If you waltz up to a microphone and regurgitate the words of somebody else, do a little dance to music someone else produced, you're not. You're barely an artist at all. What that makes you is a performer. And Beyonce may very well be a better, more popular, more successful performer. But an artist, she is not.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 12, '15, 5:41 pm

When Beck reaches Kanye's level, get back at me.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Messiah » Feb 12, '15, 5:48 pm

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Mind, Late Registration, The College Dropout, 808s & Heartbreak, Graduation, all better than Beck's so-called "Album of the Year". Hell, throw Cruel Summer and Watch the Throne in there too.

Kanye West played a major role in production. The executive. The boss. Ye don't need no fucking writers. Better artist than Beck.

Kanye got everyone talking about him and not Beck. Ye wins... again.
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Re: Kanye West almost Kanye'd Beck

Postby Everlong » Feb 12, '15, 5:49 pm

Jesus, why is it so hard to accept that Kanye is a good artist who's kind of a douche? He doesn't have to be a saint, or a musical genius. He's one of the most prominent and influential artists today, is that not enough?

This thread is giving me a headache.
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