20 Years Ago Today...

[Romo]

We lost Kurt Cobain, the man who changed rock music forever..... so in honor... here is Nevermind.

[Daz]

Yeah, not a fan.

[Locke]

Wow, 20 years. That's nuts.

[ShaneOfan]

Never cared for Nirvana or really any of the grunge stuff.

[PorkChop]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.



Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

[ShaneOfan]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.



Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

My first thought was, "there is now way Hillbilly Jim is a reliable source" then they questioned it right away. Everything about that seemed staged and fake. Here is the thing. Cobain was a depressed drug addict that knew he was on his way out and shot himself. Case closed. No conspiracy. People just have a hard time accepting their "hero" could have shot himself.

[PorkChop]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.



Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

My first thought was, "there is now way Hillbilly Jim is a reliable source" then they questioned it right away. Everything about that seemed staged and fake. Here is the thing. Cobain was a depressed drug addict that knew he was on his way out and shot himself. Case closed. No conspiracy. People just have a hard time accepting their "hero" could have shot himself.

Nah, I disagree - I'm no Cobain lover, he's certainly no hero of mine (if I had to go for a pint with any celebrity, he's one of the worst people I can think of) but I've always thought the circumstances surrounding his death have always seemed a bit murky. The more I've looked into it, the more it seems to be the case too.

[Daz]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.



Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

Watched this documentary the other day strangely enough. Honestly, for all the differing conspiracy theories and whatnot raised, I still have a hard time buying into the murder angle. Yeah, the circumstances are a little sketchy, but then he was a little sketchy himself ... not to mention Courtney Love. The El Duce murder doesn't really change my mind either. Yeah the timing is a little strange, but by all accounts he was into some serious shit, so it's probably a wonder he survived as long as he did.

[PorkChop]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.



Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

Watched this documentary the other day strangely enough. Honestly, for all the differing conspiracy theories and whatnot raised, I still have a hard time buying into the murder angle. Yeah, the circumstances are a little sketchy, but then he was a little sketchy himself ... not to mention Courtney Love. The El Duce murder doesn't really change my mind either. Yeah the timing is a little strange, but by all accounts he was into some serious shit, so it's probably a wonder he survived as long as he did.

The most terrifying thing about the film was El Duce's upside down face:

[Daz]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.



Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

Watched this documentary the other day strangely enough. Honestly, for all the differing conspiracy theories and whatnot raised, I still have a hard time buying into the murder angle. Yeah, the circumstances are a little sketchy, but then he was a little sketchy himself ... not to mention Courtney Love. The El Duce murder doesn't really change my mind either. Yeah the timing is a little strange, but by all accounts he was into some serious shit, so it's probably a wonder he survived as long as he did.

The most terrifying thing about the film was El Duce's upside down face:

Enjoyed the hell out of his song Sex Slave though. You just don't see lyrics like that everyday.

[Viazon]

Good band. Like some of their stuff. Sad story.

However, would we have had Foo Fighters if this didn't happen? Not like I wish death on anyone but, I'd rather have Foo Fighters than an alive Kurt Cobain.

[VaderBomb]

Nirvana is soooo much better than the Foo Fighters.

[Locke]

Nirvana is soooo much better than the Foo Fighters.

Could not disagree more.

[ShaneOfan]

Nirvana is soooo much better than the Foo Fighters.

Could not disagree more.

Yeah same here. Nirvana was way overrated. Foo Fighters while far from my favorite band, at least have a few decent songs.

[VaderBomb]

http://vimeo.com/26345288

This disagrees with anybody who thinks Dave Grohl is better off without Cobain.

[Battleaxe]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.

<span>[youtube]<a class="smarterwiki-linkify" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2nK5IQs_g[/youtube]">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2nK5IQs_g[/youtube]</a></span>

Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

My first thought was, "there is now way Hillbilly Jim is a reliable source" then they questioned it right away. Everything about that seemed staged and fake. Here is the thing. Cobain was a depressed drug addict that knew he was on his way out and shot himself. Case closed. No conspiracy. People just have a hard time accepting their "hero" could have shot himself.

Actually, here is the thing. It's clear you have no knowledge of the subject at all, and the tone of your comments suggest that you dislike the man personally (please explain what you mean by "he knew he was on his way out"). After doing a little research, most people with an open mind would probably come to the conclusion that the case should at least be re-opened, as it was rather hastily conducted.

Nirvana is my favorite band ever. It was the most incredible sound I had ever heard in my twelve-year-old life, and continues to be to this day. I've never fully understood the whole Nirvana-is-overrated sentiment that exists. I know where it comes from, and why it exists, I just don't agree with most of it.

[Hanley!]

The Cobain suicide conspiracy has been debunked at this stage, there's a clear explanation behind all of the mysteries. He had 3 times as much heroin in his body as it would have taken to kill him? Well it's an inexact science how much of a drug will kill someone, and Cobain had a ridiculously high tolerance to the drug at that point in his life. The handwriting was different at the end of his note? It was messier and more childish looking, because his motor skills were becoming less functional because of the drugs. Forensic analysts did check the suicide note and eventually ruled that Kurt wrote all of it.

So yeah, he did commit suicide. Doesn't make his death suck any less though. And it certainly doesn't make Foo Fighters better than Nirvana.

[UTK]

Can somebody explain to me how Nirvana changed music? I don't see it.

[Everlong]

Can somebody explain to me how Nirvana changed music? I don't see it.

They were among the forerunners of the Grunge style that typified 90s rock and is still seen in a lot of the biggest rock acts today. Rock went from being typified by overly glamorous, showy hair metal to a bunch of dudes jamming in a garage. It just seemed so much more real and attainable. Think about it, it's just so much easier to forge a connection with a group of musicians that feel like they're on your level, like Nirvana, as opposed to these huge arena rock bands from the 80s with their ridiculous outfits and stage shows. Nirvana helped bring rock back down from being about the show and the spectacle to being about realism and the music and actual people and the real problems they face.

Hugely popular groups like Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters etc. all have their roots based in what Nirvana popularized. I'm not the biggest Nirvana fan in the world, I do like quite a bit of their stuff but tend to prefer Foo Fighters/STP. But it's easy to recognize their influence, and most people who beat the "overrated" drum with them tend to not understand exactly how huge of a musical shift Nirvana helped to usher in the rock genre and how many bands since then have tried to mimic what they did.

[Daz]

I was a fan in my early to mid teens. Not so much these days, but I'll listen to a track or two for nostalgia reasons.

Want to see something interesting? Here's a man called 'El Duce' (real name Eldon Hoke), a friend of Courtney Love, who claims he was offered money by Courtney to kill Kurt by shooting him in the head, and making it look like a suicide.

<span>[youtube]<a class="smarterwiki-linkify" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2nK5IQs_g[/youtube]">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho2nK5IQs_g[/youtube]</a></span>

Watch the whole thing, but around 2:55, you hear a woman cry in the distance (coming from El Duce's house) "Help us!". El Duce then swiftly ends the interview.

A few days after this interview, El Duce was found dead, placed on some traintracks.

My first thought was, "there is now way Hillbilly Jim is a reliable source" then they questioned it right away. Everything about that seemed staged and fake. Here is the thing. Cobain was a depressed drug addict that knew he was on his way out and shot himself. Case closed. No conspiracy. People just have a hard time accepting their "hero" could have shot himself.

Actually, here is the thing. It's clear you have no knowledge of the subject at all, and the tone of your comments suggest that you dislike the man personally (please explain what you mean by "he knew he was on his way out"). After doing a little research, most people with an open mind would probably come to the conclusion that the case should at least be re-opened, as it was rather hastily conducted.

Nirvana is my favorite band ever. It was the most incredible sound I had ever heard in my twelve-year-old life, and continues to be to this day. I've never fully understood the whole Nirvana-is-overrated sentiment that exists. I know where it comes from, and why it exists, I just don't agree with most of it.

To be fair, the fact Nirvana are your favourite band prejudices your point of view the same way ShaneO's suggested dislike of Cobain does his.

My anti-Nirvana sentiment comes from the fact they just never did it for me musically. Always preferred the Pixies. Also I imagine a lot of it comes from this "they changed music" sort of nonsense. It's my belief things were already heading in that general direction anyway. Nirvana and their appeal certainly helped matters, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they changed it as much as die hard Nirvana fans would like to think. Cobain's suicide has definitely played apart of their longevity. I don't want to diminish them completely and say had he survived and if he was still around today, they wouldn't be so well remembered but I don't think they'd be held in the light and esteem they are. That's just my personal opinion.