Game of Thrones - Season 6 - Discussion Thread

[Headlesspete]

So lets get the ball rolling, Season 6 has started, what did everyone think of the first episode, and any predictions for this season?

I felt it wasn't all that action packed, but then for a season opener i guess they could't go right into everything, and had to refresh anyone that's not re-watched it or can't remember all the details.

The biggest talking point was obviously Mellasandra being revealed to be hundreds of years old! Not a huge surprise when you think about all the red god has done, but was still an awesome moment. And while i still think she'll bring Jon back to life, I'm kinda glad they ain't rushing into it just yet. I'm also hoping Davos has a face off with Mel about killing Stannis daughter, i think that could be amazing!

Brianne saving Sansa was one of the most heartwarming scenes in a long time of the series, and that was after a realy cute moment where Then tried to warm Sansa up with a hug and held her hand. Was just a touching scene, and the fighting weren't bad either!

Looks like they decided to just start again with Dorne and cleaned the slate, maybe not a bad idea after how poorly received it was last year. I'll give it a chance to see what they are doing this year before hating on it. Atleast Doran being stabbed shocked me.

Hmm....everything else just simmered, but no Sam and Gilly so it gets bonus points for that!

[UTK]

Oh I take issue with so many things. Mostly because I didn't like season 5 so I was hoping they would wow me with the season 6 premiere and they did the opposite.

Let's talk about Dorne for a second. Why the fuck did they even introduce Dorne in the show? In the books Doran is crucial because he was going to marry his son Quentyn (not in the show) to Daenerys and then the full firepower of the Dornish army would march on King's Landing with Dany and her dragons. Doran appears weak and feeble to his subjects but actually has this master plan so he can get his revenge. But in the show, none of that happens. Doran appears weak and feeble because he is weak and feeble. There was literally no point to the Dorne plotline. Also let's have a logic check for a second; Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are upset about the murder of two of their family members, so their plan is to kill two more family members? Yeah, great move there. In addition to that, why the fuck didn't Jaime and Bronn turn the ship around and go kick the Sand Snakes' asses? Myrcella died like, 5 minutes after they left port. It seemed pretty out of character for Jaime to be like, "Welp, watcha gonna do? Guess I'll just write Doran an angry-worded letter." No. That's just dumb.

The scene between Sansa and Brienne was nice. But it was funny to me how Theon kept worrying about the hounds and what they'll do, but when push came to shove the hounds ran away like little bitches (no pun intended.) Solid training, Ramsay. Then again these are the same hounds that helped a shirtless Ramsay kick a bunch of Iron Islander pirates' asses two seasons ago. So maybe they are fiercer than I give them credit for.

As for the Wall, I'm still confused about the mutiny against Jon. In the books the White Walkers haven't actually been seen by anybody still alive in the Night's Watch, but in the show Jon and two other brothers saw the Night King raise wildlings from the dead right in fucking front of them. How does that not convince the rest of the Watch to listen to Jon? Beyond that, I think it's out of character for Thorne to have participated in the mutiny. His dialogue in this episode reaffirms that, the way he talks about following orders and all. Thorne is one of the characters that has stayed pretty true to his book counterpart, and his book counterpart would have beheaded anyone who killed Jon. Because Thorne understands honor and respect. The point of the scene where Jon beheaded Janos Slynt was to solidify himself as a powerful leader. You see afterwards that Thorne begins to respect him. But the show's writers don't seem to give a shit about character development if it hurts the story they want to tell (*cough* Stannis)

The Daenerys scenes weren't bad, but I feel like the Dothraki were uncharacteristic of themselves. They're brutes who like to fuck anything that moves as we saw in the first episode of the series, but there's some Dothraki talking about how he only likes to fuck smart women because he enjoys talking after sex. It was a funny scene but it felt very out of place.


I hope the rest of the season is better. I'm excited to see Bran again, Euron Greyjoy and the Iron Islands plot, Arya's continued training, and hopefully Jon's return from the dead to kick everybody's ass.

[SlightlyJames]

This was a mostly okay episode. I just can't fathom how they can be so fucking bad at Dorne. They've neglected to include, or otherwise killed pretty much anyone interesting there or even tangentially related to them and we've been left with Sand Snake land. I hope beyond hope that this is a show deviation and not a sign of how this all plays out in Winds.

[Viazon]

I have a question about Daenerys and the fact that she is being held by the Dothraki. When did she actually lose the Dothraki people? I mean, she married Khal Drogo and became their Queen. After he dies, she becomes their leader. From what I can remember, the Dothraki were with her when she made it to Qarth and then they were there when she free the Unsullied from their slave masters. Then she went to Maureen and ruled there for a while. Then the Sons of Harpy attack and her dragon flies her away where she is found by the Dothraki. That's the basic gist of what has happened, from what I can recall. When did the Dothraki break away from her. Did I miss something?

[Hanley!]

I thought the episode was pretty dull. I'm starting to worry that the show is just on a downward decline now.

Lets start with the obvious: Dorne sucks. It sucked last season, and now they've killed off all the characters that could have made that story interesting. Myrcella wasn't an interesting character, but she was an interesting political pawn. Gone. Doran wasn't an interesting character in the show, but he was in the books and they hired a great actor to play him. Gone. What are we left with? The fucking Sand Snakes. The notoriously terrible characters from last season that nobody liked. Great.

@UTK already explained the plot contrivances here too. Why would these women who are obsessed with the murders of their kin go and murder more of their kin? Why didn't Jaime go back and kick some fucking ass when his daughter died while their boat was just 10 minutes away from the dock? Can boats not turn in Westeros?

We've also gone from one boring story in Mereen to three boring stories in Mereen. Fan-fucking-tastic. For those of you who have been annoyed that Dany's story has been spinning in place for the last three seasons, worry no longer because it's finally off and moving again and it's going fucking backwards.

Then there's the adventures of Dull & Creepy who have taken off after her on horseback. I sure hope we don't have to check in on their progress every week.

Tyrion and Varys ruling a city together sounds great in a fan service sort of way, but they have no other major characters to bounce off, which makes their segment of the show seem inconsequential. It's too early to tell, but I fear they might have found a way to make the best characters from the early seasons seem boring.

Speaking of once great characters becoming boring ... Arya.


There really wasn't much I liked about this episode. The stuff at the Wall was okay. And the moment between Brienne and Sansa was nice. But that's about it for this week.

Next week we need more Tyrells. Call me crazy, but Margaery and Lady Olenna are my favourite characters in the show at this point.

[Headlesspete]

Lets start with the obvious: Dorne sucks. It sucked last season, and now they've killed off all the characters that could have made that story interesting. Myrcella wasn't an interesting character, but she was an interesting political pawn. Gone. Doran wasn't an interesting character in the show, but he was in the books and they hired a great actor to play him. Gone. What are we left with? The fucking Sand Snakes. The notoriously terrible characters from last season that nobody liked. Great.

@UTK already explained the plot contrivances here too. Why would these women who are obsessed with the murders of their kin go and murder more of their kin? Why didn't Jaime go back and kick some fucking ass when his daughter died while their boat was just 10 minutes away from the dock? Can boats not turn in Westeros?

Speaking of once great characters becoming boring ... Arya.

Next week we need more Tyrells. Call me crazy, but Margaery and Lady Olenna are my favourite characters in the show at this point.

I think Dorne is a lost cause. I have no idea how they plan to move forward with it, because yeah Doran seemed like the best character and i was hoping he'd be used to push the plot into a more interesting place. I don't want to be too harsh yet because its only just started, but I'm hoping they find a way to turn it around.

The Jamie thing i can understand. It was just him and Bronn, what were they going to be able to do on their own? Remember, Jamie can no longer fight and i would assume Bronn has had enough. So i get why he didn't go back and attack. What i dont understand is how the 2 Sand Snakes ended up on the boat to kill Tristan....weren't they on the dock watching the boat sail away last season?...

I've found Arya boring last season, and this season looks like its going to be more of the same. I dunno why, but the whole "many faced god" stuff really isn't interesting to me. I get they are trying to train Arya, but i'd rather they just cut her out and came back to her when shes ready, like Bran.

Oh, and Lady Olenna is my favorite character too. Between her, Margery and Cersi, Kings Landing is still the most must see parts of the show!

[Everlong]

I think the show has officially lost it, and I'm very quickly giving up hope. It's a shame, because I think there's far more hope for the books at this point than the show.

[SlightlyJames]

I have a question about Daenerys and the fact that she is being held by the Dothraki. When did she actually lose the Dothraki people? I mean, she married Khal Drogo and became their Queen. After he dies, she becomes their leader. From what I can remember, the Dothraki were with her when she made it to Qarth and then they were there when she free the Unsullied from their slave masters. Then she went to Maureen and ruled there for a while. Then the Sons of Harpy attack and her dragon flies her away where she is found by the Dothraki. That's the basic gist of what has happened, from what I can recall. When did the Dothraki break away from her. Did I miss something?

@Viazon
Drogo had a really big Khalasar comprised of many Dothraki riders. As far as I know it was the biggest at the time so it was easy to think of a force that significant as all Dothraki, but it wasn't. When a Khal dies, Dothraki tradition is that his Khaleesi goes to Vaes Dothrak to hang out with all the other widows of great Khals, but Dany wasn't too keen on that.

After Drogo's death, most of his more prominent riders broke off to form their own Khalasars, taking the lion's share of those who had been loyal to Drogo with them. A select few stayed with Dany when she survived the fire and she got to skip the whole Vaes Dothrak thing on account of having Dragons but then she spent a load of time trudging about the desert and most of her Dothraki loyalists died.

I think it's the intention of this new chap she's met to make her fulfil her original obligation to go live in Vaes Dothrak.

[Hanley!]

The Jamie thing i can understand. It was just him and Bronn, what were they going to be able to do on their own?

But he knew Prince Doran was on his side. It was pretty obvious that she was killed by one of the bitches. Who had already been warned not the defy the Prince's wishes again a few hours previously. It's not like Jaime would have to fight the entirety of Dorne on his own. He just had to rat out the Sand Snakes to the Prince.

Oh, and Lady Olenna is my favorite character too. Between her, Margery and Cersi, Kings Landing is still the most must see parts of the show!

It always has been. The further the show gets from King's Landing, the worse it is. That's been my rule since the start, and it's never stopped being true.

I think the show has officially lost it, and I'm very quickly giving up hope. It's a shame, because I think there's far more hope for the books at this point than the show.

Here's where I'm going to be a bummer. The books are better in a lot of ways. BUT. If the show has killed off an interesting character that's still alive in the book, or skipped over an interesting plot point that you loved in the books, the likelihood is that those characters and plot points will ultimately be of no consequence at all in the books either. They are still basing the show on Martin's story and what he's told them about where it's going.

The truth is that at this point, the majority of this story is padding, and that's even more true in the books than it is in the show.

[Headlesspete]

I think the show has officially lost it, and I'm very quickly giving up hope. It's a shame, because I think there's far more hope for the books at this point than the show.

Here's where I'm going to be a bummer. The books are better in a lot of ways. BUT. If the show has killed off an interesting character that's still alive in the book, or skipped over an interesting plot point that you loved in the books, the likelihood is that those characters and plot points will ultimately be of no consequence at all in the books either. They are still basing the show on Martin's story and what he's told them about where it's going.

The truth is that at this point, the majority of this story is padding, and that's even more true in the books than it is in the show.

I still wonder how they handle the whole Frey thing then. If they really aren't putting Stoneheart in the show (a massive mistake if that's the case, because it would be such an amazing moment that so many fans want to see), who gets revenge on the Freys? I know that the Riverrun story is in this season, and i know the guy that plays Walder Frey and the Tully cousin that got married at the Red Wedding are both in this season, i assume to wrap the Frey story up. But whos gonna be involved in that from the Starks? Its all about Stark revenge, so it has to be one of them.

Bran is beyond the Wall, Arya is in Bravos and Rickon is on his own. Sansa is the only Stark near the Twins and with help, but i think Brienna killing Walder after she's already killed both The Hound and Stannis is way too much.

[SlightlyJames]

As far as the Arya stuff goes, I think it's been quite uninspiring for a few reasons. They obviously don't want to dedicate too much time to her stuff at the moment and we're just getting the cliff notes of "she was blind, she had some rough training" so there's not much to enjoy as it all feels really rushed. I can't speak for others but I quite enjoyed Braavos, it seemed like a really nice place and even when not much was happening on Arya's end I liked spending time there, it would be nice if they showed that a bit.

Spoiler:

I also don't really get why they've elected to remove the whole Nymeria side of things. I suppose Jaime was off doing random shit in Dorne for whatever reason last year and Brienne was up north so we've not had anyone to be our eyes in the Riverlands but it would certainly spice up things on Arya's end if she had a warg dream or two.

I think the show has officially lost it, and I'm very quickly giving up hope. It's a shame, because I think there's far more hope for the books at this point than the show.

Here's where I'm going to be a bummer. The books are better in a lot of ways. BUT. If the show has killed off an interesting character that's still alive in the book, or skipped over an interesting plot point that you loved in the books, the likelihood is that those characters and plot points will ultimately be of no consequence at all in the books either. They are still basing the show on Martin's story and what he's told them about where it's going.

The truth is that at this point, the majority of this story is padding, and that's even more true in the books than it is in the show.

I'm all too aware of this, and it makes certain stupid things I'd normally dismiss even worse. Gonna have to go into book spoiler mode to elaborate.

Spoiler:

I mean, they cut something like Quentyn Martell, fair enough, he's dragon dinner anyway so no big loss. Then they go and do something like give Jon Connington's greyscale to Jorah Mormont. What that tells me is Young Griff/Aegon Targaryen probably isn't going to be as significant a character as it appeared he would, since the show obviously felt he wasn't important to include and just folded his story into Dany's instead.

The most annoying thing is with Quentyn and Aegon not existing in this universe, it appears that Doran Martell really was just as passive as the Sand Snakes thought he was. We're never going to find out about his grand strategy for revenge, there's never going to be a Fire and Blood speech because all of the long games he's playing in the book are nowhere to be seen in the show.

[Fudgecakes]

but i think Brienna killing Walder after she's already killed both The Hound and Stannis is way too much.

Who's to say The Hound is actually dead?

[Hanley!]

Also, this might seem both obvious and trivial in the grand scheme of things, but I feel like the show doesn't really respect its female characters for the most part. It's bugging me a little at this point.

The gratuitous nudity was always over the top, but there was a point when the show had a lot of strong female characters. Now most of them are weak and either subservient to someone else or being manipulated by someone else. It feels like the show is moving backwards on that score.

There was a big debate last year after Sansa was raped about whether or not that should have happened, about whether or not it was disrespectful to her character, etc. Some people defended it by saying that it would lead to her becoming more badass and assertive and would have a pay off down the line. By the end of the season, that felt like extremely wishful thinking. And it feels even more so now.

My favourite scene of the episode was the one between Brienne and Sansa, but there was a tiny moment in there that bothered me more than it reasonably should have. When Brienne pledged to serve Sansa, she hesitated and looked over at Theon who nodded at her. Why the fuck would or should she turn to Theon for direction at that moment? She can make her own decisions. Particularly on an issue like that one which is much more her area than his. I took it as confirmation that Sansa isn't supposed to have any agency at all as a character. She'll do whatever the men around her tell her to do, and that's her role now.

If last year is any indication, people are probably going to try and shout me down on this one, but there you go.

[SlightlyJames]

When Brienne pledged to serve Sansa, she hesitated and looked over at Theon who nodded at her. Why the fuck would or should she turn to Theon for direction at that moment? She can make her own decisions. Particularly on an issue like that one which is much more her area than his. I took it as confirmation that Sansa isn't supposed to have any agency at all as a character. She'll do whatever the men around her tell her to do, and that's her role now.

She turned to Theon because he has a strong connection to her past and probably served as a reminder that she was in fact noble, rather than a pawn of Littlefinger, a thrall to Ramsay or a prisoner of the Lannisters. It's the first time she'd really been a Lady in a good few years and it may well have been jarring to have that kind of pledge made to her. I don't know man it feels like you're picking at bones here.

[Hanley!]

She turned to Theon because he has a strong connection to her past and probably served as a reminder that she was in fact noble, rather than a pawn of Littlefinger, a thrall to Ramsay or a prisoner of the Lannisters. It's the first time she'd really been a Lady in a good few years and it may well have been jarring to have that kind of pledge made to her. I don't know man it feels like you're picking at bones here.

It's not like she's got a great bond with Theon or anything. It's not like she should trust his opinion, after everything he did to her family. He might not have killed the two boys, but that doesn't mean that he's an innocent character at all.

Along with not being trustworthy, Theon knows nothing about Brienne. And he hasn't been in this situation before. He really has nothing worthwhile to add here. There was no reason for Sansa to look to him other than her just being too weak a character to make her own decisions. That was all I got out of that moment.

Sansa may not be a pawn of Littlefinger, Ramsay or the Lannisters anymore, but none of that was really her own doing. She just gets passed around by other characters, and now she's being directed by someone who should be significantly less important than she is. It might not last throughout the season, and I hope it doesn't. But it's not filling me with confidence. People were defending Sansa's role in Season 5 constantly too and saying it would turn around. But it still hasn't.

In contrast, I really liked the moment where Sansa stumbled over her words when saying her part of the vows and Podrick had to help her. During her struggles Sansa has forgotten some of what she was taught during her upbringing, but she managed to find the words with help from Podrick, who would naturally know this stuff. I thought that was a really nice touch.

[SlightlyJames]

In contrast, I really liked the moment where Sansa stumbled over her words when saying her part of the vows and Podrick had to help her. During her struggles Sansa has forgotten some of what she was taught during her upbringing, but she managed to find the words with help from Podrick, who would naturally know this stuff. I thought that was a really nice touch.

I don't get it, why can you get that, but not that the very presence of Theon, a part of her upbringing whether she was ever particularly fond of him, would have a similar effect of remembering that kind of thing? It's not a guidance or permission kind of thing, just Sansa remembering that she is a Lady of Winterfell. I see no issue whatsoever with that.

[Hanley!]

How is it not a guidance or permission thing? She is asked something, she hesitates, she looks at Theon, he nods, she does the thing. I don't understand how there could be a second interpretation of that.

[SlightlyJames]

It seemed like more of an "it's okay" reassurance kind of nod to me. I think it's a massive leap to say she's being "directed" by him.

[SlightlyJames]

Just mentioned this in the chat but it bears mentioning here, Ian McShane gave an interview where he spoke about his role in the new Game of Thrones season, I'll say more in the spoiler tags but it confirms a long standing fan theory, to say the least.

Spoiler:

He mentions how he plays an old warrior who's now living a peaceful life, who has nursed an old fan favourite character back to life that people thought was dead. I don't see any way that doesn't turn out to be the Gravedigger who people have long thought to be Sandor Clegane. Do we see Cleganebowl this year? Is some HYPE in order?

[Hanley!]

So ... thoughts on episode 2?

I thought it was a lot better. Nothing amazing in there, but plenty of decent scenes and good character stuff. Plenty to think about ahead of next week. This would at least have me interested in watching against next week.

Jon Snow coming back was predictable, so I kinda like that they got it out of the way early.

It looks like they might be doing something with Arya now too. Maybe nothing that good, who knows. But it can't be worse than just being blind and getting beaten up.

The stuff with Bran made for a nice tease.

Euron's introduction wasn't bad, and it seems like they're setting up the Kingsmoot for the next episode. That should make for some entertaining viewing.

No Daenerys or Jorah was a big thumbs up. More of the same next week please.

Roose getting killed was disappointing. He was a more interesting character than Ramsay. For a second I thought it was possible that Roose had stabbed Ramsay instead of the other way around, and I would have been all for that. Pity. Though I at least like that Roose is about to go to war with the Watch. That should be fun.

Again, I liked the stuff in King's Landing. Tommen is developing into a bit more of a character, and the High Sparrow is a really good villain. He's pretty damn scary.

The wildlings locking up the traitors of the Night's Watch (and the giant throwing that dude off a wall) was enjoyable. It was at least somewhat cathartic in a show that loves to punish its audience.

This episode was really more about teasing stuff for future episodes, rather than giving us a great episode this time around. But in comparison to last week, I thought it was far better. And it did succeed in its goal of making me look forward to some of these upcoming stories.

I'm feeling a little more positive about the show again. Though we'll have to see how things go next week.