It is currently: Apr 27, '24, 3:38 am

G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Talk about movies and television in here!

G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby UTK » Jan 02, '16, 1:01 pm

http://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html

. . .

We all wanted book six of A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE to come out before season six of the HBO show aired. Assuming the show would return in early April, that meant THE WINDS OF WINTER had to be published before the end of March, at the latest. For that to happen, my publishers told me, they would need the completed manuscript before the end of October. That seemed very do-able to me... in May. So there was the first deadline: Halloween.

Unfortunately, the writing did not go as fast or as well as I would have liked. You can blame my travels or my blog posts or the distractions of other projects and the Cocteau and whatever, but maybe all that had an impact... you can blame my age, and maybe that had an impact too...but if truth be told, sometimes the writing goes well and sometimes it doesn't, and that was true for me even when I was in my 20s. And as spring turned to summer, I was having more bad days than good ones. Around about August, I had to face facts: I was not going to be done by Halloween. I cannot tell you how deeply that realization depressed me.

Early August saw me back east for my nephew's wedding and an appearance with the Staten Island Direwolves. I took advantage of the visit to have another sit down with my editors and publishers and told them that I didn't think I could deliver by Halloween. I thought they'd be sick about it... but I have to say, my editors and publishers are great, and they took it with surprising equanimity. (Maybe they knew it before I did). They already had contigencies in place. They had made plans to speed up production. If I could deliver WINDS OF WINTER by the end of the year, they told me, they could still get it our before the end of March.

I was immensely relieved. I had two whole extra months! I could make that, certainly. August was an insane month, too much travel, too many other obligations... but I'd have September, October, and now November and December as well. Once again I was confident I could do it.

Here it is, the first of January. The book is not done, not delivered. No words can change that. I tried, I promise you. I failed. I blew the Halloween deadline, and I've now blown the end of the year deadline. And that almost certainly means that no, THE WINDS OF WINTER will not be published before the sixth season of GAME OF THRONES premieres in April (mid April, we are now told, not early April, but those two weeks will not save me). Even as late as my birthday and our big Emmy win, I still thought I could do it... but the days and weeks flew by faster than the pile of pages grew, and (as I often do) I grew unhappy with some of the choices I'd made and began to revise... and suddenly it was October, and then November... and as the suspicion grew that I would not make it after all, a gloom set in, and I found myself struggling even more. The fewer the days, the greater the stress, and the slower the pace of my writing became.


As frustrated as I am at this, it pales in comparison to his frustration. I feel so bad for the guy...he really wanted to get it out before April... I really didn't want to watch the new season before Winds came out, especially after how much I hated Season 5. But I'd rather watch the events unfold than accidentally read about them on my Facebook feed. Very disappointing news :crybaby
  • 0

Image

All aboard the hype train, motherfuckers.
User avatar
UTK Male
Next Big Thing
Next Big Thing
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Topic Author
Posts: 1128
Topics: 59
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 531
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby SlightlyJames » Jan 03, '16, 7:06 am

Definitely disappointing but appreciate the transparency. I would expect we get it in the back half of this year, probably around July - October if I'm guessing.
  • 0

Image
User avatar
SlightlyJames Male
Ring General
Ring General
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 2994
Topics: 275
Age: 30
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Glasgow
Reputation: 1424

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Hanley! » Jan 03, '16, 10:13 am

Hopefully he doesn't lose all motivation now that he's missed the window to have the book out before the next season of the show. Hopefully we won't be kept waiting too long.

I have to say though, that I'm increasingly worried about the quality of the next book. I think his books have been getting a bit worse as they've gone along. Or at the very least, A Dance With Dragons was his worst by quite some margin. He has this need to add too many new plots and characters without resolving old ones, and the story gets tedious to keep track of after a while. I hope Winds of Winter isn't taking so long because he's continuing to create tangental plot lines and unnecessary new characters.
  • 2

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Daz » Jan 03, '16, 10:19 am

I'd rather he take his time and deliver a good book that needlessly rush to beat the show. Of course, now there is the potential scenario where he changes the ending to the book he has been building too all these years, if it's not well received in the show.
  • 1

Image
Click image to get your tits blown off by my literary prowess.
User avatar
Daz Male
Referee
Ring General
Ring General
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 2885
Topics: 25
Age: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 1382

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Str8Shooter » Jan 03, '16, 10:33 am

As someone who's only seen the first couple seasons of the show and read all the books, does this basically mean that the writers of the show have to essentially start creating everything that comes from now on their own? That'd be pretty crazy. Then you'd have an entirely different outcome for the book and show.
  • 0

User avatar
Str8Shooter Male
Creative Team
Main Eventer
Main Eventer
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 3896
Topics: 359
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Reputation: 1477

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby SlightlyJames » Jan 03, '16, 10:35 am

Str8Shooter wrote:As someone who's only seen the first couple seasons of the show and read all the books, does this basically mean that the writers of the show have to essentially start creating everything that comes from now on their own? That'd be pretty crazy. Then you'd have an entirely different outcome for the book and show.


They have the basic skeleton at the story, but there has already been some divergence. Basically they're heading to the same destination but they're likely taking a different route. Honestly without source material to go off of the quality of the show has been dubious at times.
  • 1

Image
User avatar
SlightlyJames Male
Ring General
Ring General
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 2994
Topics: 275
Age: 30
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Glasgow
Reputation: 1424

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Hanley! » Jan 03, '16, 10:38 am

The writers for the show have been told what the ending is. So they're probably working to get to the same point. But the show has already diverged from the books a bit, particularly in the most recent season. So I imagine now that it's pulled ahead, there will be even more differences. But I'm presuming both will still have the same ending. More or less.

It is pretty crazy: the idea that an adaptation will conclude before the source material it was based on. I'm not sure that's ever happened in the history of entertainment. At least not to this scale.

SlightlyJames wrote:Honestly without source material to go off of the quality of the show has been dubious at times.


Season 5 was definitely a step down, but I reckon that's as much to do with the source material getting shittier, as the divergence from that source material.

I reckon Season 5 might have been the toughest from the showrunners because they had to stick firmly to certain points from the books, but had to create brand new stories for other characters. It had to have been a weird balancing act. If they have their own creative freedom for the next season, it might turn out better.
  • 1

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby EmperorWu » Jan 03, '16, 11:04 am

Can't blame the books for "need bad pussy". The source material is miles better than some of the shit the writers make up as they move further away from the source material. A lot of the changes thry made seemed completely unnecessary.
  • 0

Image
User avatar
EmperorWu Male
Next Big Thing
Next Big Thing
 
9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
 
Posts: 1049
Topics: 62
Age: 36
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015
Location: Marysville, Washington
Reputation: 567

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Hanley! » Jan 03, '16, 11:11 am

EmperorWu wrote:Can't blame the books for "need bad pussy".


I'm not going to try and defend that.

The Sand Snakes in the books are dull as fuck to be fair. But they're both dull and the most blatant example of HBO fan service in the show. It's really cringe.

Oh look, here are some more ladies who take their clothes off at a moments notice. And these ones don't even ever have a reason for it. Hurray. :facepalm At least with Melisandre it always seems creepy and often it feels like she's trying to manipulate someone. With Cersei, she was being publically shamed. Other characters are often naked because they're about to have sex, which is one of the better reasons to get naked. But the Sand Snakes feel like they only get naked because they realise there are cameras pointing at them, and what other purpose could they possibly serve as hot females on a HBO show?
  • 5

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Everlong » Jan 03, '16, 7:13 pm

Yeah you can just feel how defeated the guy is in reading this, it's sad. So many expectations being placed on him, many of which could be pretty unreasonable. But he's also done a lot of this to himself as well.

Hope to see the book on shelves this year but I wouldn't bank on it.
  • 0

Image

Image

YOU HEARD IT FROM TAJ FIRST FOLKS
User avatar
Everlong Male
SquaredCircle Commisioner
Living Legend
Living Legend
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 10544
Topics: 2439
Age: 35
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Brew City, USA
Reputation: 3827

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby EmperorWu » Jan 03, '16, 7:22 pm

I don't even care anymore. He's going to die before he ever finishes the series so fuck it.

Also it might be hard to live up to expectations now that his series is so popular. If it fails to live up it might be blamed on him "rushing" the book anyway, even if he didn't. Also the added stress might affect the quality of the novel.

No matter what nobody wins, especially not George so fuck it. Let it be what it's going to be.
  • 0

Image
User avatar
EmperorWu Male
Next Big Thing
Next Big Thing
 
9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership9 years of membership
 
Posts: 1049
Topics: 62
Age: 36
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015
Location: Marysville, Washington
Reputation: 567

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Hanley! » Jan 03, '16, 9:00 pm

It must suck to have people harrassing him to write all the time. He's a human being, he can do what he likes. And it's particularly nasty that people keep coming after him saying "what if you die before you've given me what I want from you?" Imagine how that must make him feel. Some of what people say to him and about him on social media is pretty inexcusable, in my opinion.

But he's not entirely blameless when it comes to the situation with the books overtaking the show. He said years ago that he couldn't foresee that happening, but everyone who was familiar with the books were concerned by it. Anyone could do the math and see that he couldn't possibly stay ahead of the series writing at his usual pace. He should have thought about it beforehand.
  • 4

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Str8Shooter » Jan 03, '16, 9:19 pm

To be fair in the criticism of him, the guy takes ridiculously long to write his books. I mean obviously it's his series and his story to tell, but I can't think of any other author of a series that took as long as he does with it.
  • 0

User avatar
Str8Shooter Male
Creative Team
Main Eventer
Main Eventer
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 3896
Topics: 359
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Reputation: 1477

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby UTK » Jan 04, '16, 2:47 pm

Hanley! wrote:
SlightlyJames wrote:Honestly without source material to go off of the quality of the show has been dubious at times.


Season 5 was definitely a step down, but I reckon that's as much to do with the source material getting shittier, as the divergence from that source material.

I reckon Season 5 might have been the toughest from the showrunners because they had to stick firmly to certain points from the books, but had to create brand new stories for other characters. It had to have been a weird balancing act. If they have their own creative freedom for the next season, it might turn out better.


Well let's talk about the parts of Season 5 that were shit.

-The Dorne plotline
-Stannis' plotline
-The North plotline / Sansa being victimized again

I'm sure there were more but I haven't watched any of the episodes since they originally aired so that's all I can recall that I really hated. There were other things too (like how the mutiny on Jon made no sense when the White Walkers were so close of a threat), but those were things that 75% of book-readers agreed was shit. Not a coincidence that those things are not in the novels. The only thing in Season 5 that was both original and well-done was Hardhome. That was amazing. Beyond that, the quality dipped terribly, and I don't think it was because of the source material.
  • 10

Image

All aboard the hype train, motherfuckers.
User avatar
UTK Male
Next Big Thing
Next Big Thing
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Topic Author
Posts: 1128
Topics: 59
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 531
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Hanley! » Jan 04, '16, 3:54 pm

Well I'm definitely not alone in the opinion that the latest book is the weakest, and by quite a margin. The series did inherit quite a lot of shit from it too, like Tyrion going from one of the story's best characters to one of its dullest. And while I thought they left out the coolest part of the Dorne storyline, that story was shit in the books too. Everyone thought so. The Jaime & Bronn thing didn't happen in the books, but it was replaced by stuff that was equally bad. Not as silly maybe, but even more dull. And it left a lot of the superfluous crap from the novel out.

I'm not going to argue that the things you mentioned were good, because they weren't. But the source material has plenty of problems that did the series no favours.

And you're overlooking the main part of my argument anyway. I'm specifically saying that it's got to be harder to make new stuff up while having to keep other parts of the story the same. For instance, when they wrote the Sansa story, they were making up new stuff for a character who's story from the books had already run its course, but in creating something new for her to do, they had to make sure not to disturb any of the other plotlines that are still ongoing in the books. That really puts handcuffs on the writers creatively.

Now it's possible that their current writing team is just shit and the further they pull away from the novels, the worse the show will get. I'm not writing off that possibility. But I don't think we have enough evidence to go on there just based on Season 5, because the writers were stuck between a rock and a hard place in some ways. In Season 6 they should have more room to manouevre.
  • 0

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby UTK » Jan 04, '16, 4:20 pm

Hanley! wrote:Well I'm definitely not alone in the opinion that the latest book is the weakest, and by quite a margin. The series did inherit quite a lot of shit from it too, like Tyrion going from one of the story's best characters to one of its dullest.


No, you're right, I agree with that as well.

And while I thought they left out the coolest part of the Dorne storyline, that story was shit in the books too. Everyone thought so. The Jaime & Bronn thing didn't happen in the books, but it was replaced by stuff that was equally bad. Not as silly maybe, but even more dull. And it left a lot of the superfluous crap from the novel out.


The Sand Snakes were stupid characters in both mediums, but other than that I enjoyed the Dorne storyline in AFFC. I loved that Book Ellaria wanted nothing to do with avenging Oberyn. I loved that Doran's non-action meant something in the end. It may have been dull at points but the end was what made it pay off.

You didn't enjoy Jaime's Riverlands chapters in AFFC? They're my favorite Jaime chapters out of all the books. So I can't agree that it was duller than Show Dorne, not at all. I saw this online a few months ago. It's facetious but it raises a good point.

And you're overlooking the main part of my argument anyway. I'm specifically saying that it's got to be harder to make new stuff up while having to keep other parts of the story the same. For instance, when they wrote the Sansa story, they were making up new stuff for a character who's story from the books had already run its course, but in creating something new for her to do, they had to make sure not to disturb any of the other plotlines that are still ongoing in the books. That really puts handcuffs on the writers creatively.


Assuming you've read the TWOW sample chapters that have been out there...Sansa is isolated from all the other characters! It's just her, Littlefinger, and the annoying-ass Arryn kid sitting pretty up in the Vale. If anything the show writers messed with other characters' storylines by unnecessarily shoving her into Theon's.
  • 0

Image

All aboard the hype train, motherfuckers.
User avatar
UTK Male
Next Big Thing
Next Big Thing
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Topic Author
Posts: 1128
Topics: 59
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Reputation: 531
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby Hanley! » Jan 04, '16, 5:47 pm

I actually haven't read the new chapters. Couldn't be bothered until there's a new book, it'd probably just make me more impatient. But I'm not sure they were out in time for the show's writers to take from them, and even if they were I can't imagine there's a huge amount to draw from out of just some sample chapters.
  • 0

User avatar
Hanley! Male
World Champion
World Champion
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 5605
Topics: 165
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Reputation: 3988

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby SlightlyJames » Jan 04, '16, 6:45 pm

Hanley! wrote:I actually haven't read the new chapters. Couldn't be bothered until there's a new book, it'd probably just make me more impatient. But I'm not sure they were out in time for the show's writers to take from them, and even if they were I can't imagine there's a huge amount to draw from out of just some sample chapters.


One of the Arya chapters sort of made it into Season 5 if I'm remembering right, so they are definitely using them.
  • 0

Image
User avatar
SlightlyJames Male
Ring General
Ring General
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 2994
Topics: 275
Age: 30
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: Glasgow
Reputation: 1424

Re: G.R.R.M. confirms..."Winds of Winter" won't be out for a while.

Postby SortaCreative » Jan 04, '16, 7:55 pm

I think people are forgetting some of the good the writers have done in the show. It's no coincidence that the show's quality matches the book's quality. Dance of Dragons is bad. A lot of the last season dragged on. They made some good changes getting rid of Quentyn, Young Griff and really focusing on Jorah and Tyrion. The Dorne plotline is garbage from the get go, the only real highlights being Oberyn and Doran both in book and in show. They should have used Doran more.

A Feast for Crows drags on a little but is a tighter book. That's reflected with a lot of the best parts of season coming from that book. The North is where I think there's the most discrepancy. Sometimes the stuff beyond the wall is better in the book, sometimes the show manages to put something on that surpasses even the book (Hardhome, Ygritte). And sometimes it just jumps the shark: Stannis.
  • 0

Image
Irin
SortaCreative Male
Next Big Thing
Next Big Thing
 
10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership10 years of membership
 
Posts: 1560
Topics: 54
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 8, 2013
Location: England, UK
Reputation: 1211
Blog: View Blog (1)

 


Return to Movies and TV

Who is Online Now?

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests

cron
Reputation System ©'