How do they pick these teams?

[The Legend]

So I had been thinking about NFL prime time games and how it seems like some teams undeservedly get a whole lot of prime time slots, namely the NFC East. So I looked at the schedule and the NFC East in fact has three more appearances on Sunday or Monday night (13) than any other division in the league despite being a division that's tied for the second fewest wins in the division this year. The NFC South and AFC East are tied for the most wins by a division in the NFL and only have 5 appearances, tied with the AFC South for the fewest by division in the league.

And it's not like anyone should have realistically thought any different about the NFC East, I mean the Skins are a dumpster fire, the Giants haven't been good for years, the Eagles were a coin flip, 50-50 shot at being good or bad at best with all of their upheaval.

The NFC East isn't the only culprit though, the NFC West and AFC West are tied for third in most appearances in prime time, despite being in the bottom half of the league with the NFC East in terms of success.

The NFC also has 6 more appearances than the AFC in prime time this year.

I didn't factor Thursday into the equation since each team appears there once, with a few bonus games on Thanksgiving. Here's the numbers by division:

NFC East 13
AFC North 10
AFC West 9
NFC West 9
NFC North 8
NFC South 5
AFC East 5
AFC South 5

[Messiah]

1. As a whole, NFC East is flat-out more popular and gets more ratings than any other division. Nobody that isn't a Jaguars fan or has his favorite team playing the Jaguars wants to watch the Jaguars play.

And it's not like anyone should have realistically thought any different about the NFC East, I mean the Skins are a dumpster fire, the Giants haven't been good for years, the Eagles were a coin flip, 50-50 shot at being good or bad at best with all of their upheaval.

Cowboys were one of the best teams in the NFL last year and would still be one of the best teams in the NFL this year if they were healthy. Eagles have had 10+ wins in the last 2 seasons. Giants with Eli always put on entertaining games and have that potential to get to 10+ wins.

the NFC West and AFC West are tied for third in most appearances in prime time, despite being in the bottom half of the league with the NFC East in terms of success.

What?

Hindsight is 20/20. It isn't like the NFL was supposed to know the Seahawks would be 2-4 to start the season. Cardinals have been great the last 2 years and Seahawks have made it to the Super Bowl the last 2 years. NFC West has been considered one of the best divisions for the last 3-4 years. AFC West had a lot of potential too between the Broncos, Chiefs, and Chargers. Again NFL couldn't predict the Chiefs were going to shit themselves.

[The Legend]

1. As a whole, NFC East is flat-out more popular and gets more ratings than any other division. Nobody that isn't a Jaguars fan or has his favorite team playing the Jaguars wants to watch the Jaguars play.

And it's not like anyone should have realistically thought any different about the NFC East, I mean the Skins are a dumpster fire, the Giants haven't been good for years, the Eagles were a coin flip, 50-50 shot at being good or bad at best with all of their upheaval.

Cowboys were one of the best teams in the NFL last year and would still be one of the best teams in the NFL this year if they were healthy. Eagles have had 10+ wins in the last 2 seasons. Giants with Eli always put on entertaining games and have that potential to get to 10+ wins.

the NFC West and AFC West are tied for third in most appearances in prime time, despite being in the bottom half of the league with the NFC East in terms of success.

What?

Hindsight is 20/20. It isn't like the NFL was supposed to know the Seahawks would be 2-4 to start the season. Cardinals have been great the last 2 years and Seahawks have made it to the Super Bowl the last 2 years. NFC West has been considered one of the best divisions for the last 3-4 years. AFC West had a lot of potential too between the Broncos, Chiefs, and Chargers. Again NFL couldn't predict the Chiefs were going to shit themselves.

The NFC East may be popular, but there are still more fans that aren't fans of the NFC East than those that are. It's sad to me that the NFL insists on falling back on putting them in prime time over and over again. It's almost like they have the same thinking of WWE, "I don't know who to put in prime time this week, who should it be? Let's throw a bone to the NFC East!" Just like the WWE throws the belt on Cena when they don't know who else to give it to. The NFL shoves the NFC East down everyone's throats even when we don't want to see it.

The Cowboys I didn't mention, because the NFL couldn't predict the injuries they've had and their derailment was harder to see. The Eagles, anyone with an ounce of NFL knowledge should have realized that Bradford and is glass knees and DeMarco Murray and his bullish running style were horrible fits for Chip Kelly's lateral sideline to sideline running offense. The Giants haven't been entertaining, interesting or capable of winning 10+ games in 3-4 seasons. Eli's done and so are the Giants, they are as irrelevant as any team in the NFL any more to me.

Seahawks starting bad, fine. Although any team built on defense is going to have a short shelf-life in a salary cap sport because you can't keep all those defenders happy (read: Kam Chancellor, and there will be more in coming years). But even taking Seahawks out of it, the Rams always suck and the Niners we all knew were a dumpster fire. The AFC West, I didn't think for a moment anyone other than maybe San Diego would be any good this year. How could we know Kansas City would shit themselves? Maybe because outside of one year, that's all they've done for the last 40 years?

[Messiah]

So the NFL should have predicted a team that made it to the Super Bowl 2 years in a row to stink it up is what you are saying? If not, then I don't know what you are trying to say. The NFL doesn't know the future.

And teams no matter the structure eventually decline unless they have studs like Brady and old Peyton at QB, and now Rodgers. You can't unfairly apply that to the Seahawks and say the NFL should have expected it. Hell you didn't even expect it.

But even taking Seahawks out of it, the Rams always suck and the Niners we all knew were a dumpster fire.

What's your point? How many divisions in the NFL are at the point where all 4 teams are good? AFC North would have been the closest one before this season and they are well represented with 10 Prime Time games. And look what happened there with the Ravens. You can't predict the future. I don't know how a team's success this season is supposed to be considered a negative to how the NFL schedules their Prime Time games. Nobody thought the Ravens would blow chunks this hard.

Also that is why they have allowed for flexing games earlier this year.

The NFC East may be popular, but there are still more fans that aren't fans of the NFC East than those that are

Well of course, just like there are more fans who aren't Cowboys fans than there are who are. But see the thing with that is you're combining every division. Individually, there is no division more popular than the NFC East. They have the largest fanbases, they get the most attention, fair or not that is how it goes. You're dealing with Dallas, Washington, and New York media.

The Eagles, anyone with an ounce of NFL knowledge should have realized that Bradford and is glass knees and DeMarco Murray and his bullish running style were horrible fits for Chip Kelly's lateral sideline to sideline running offense.

They have won 10 games the last 2 seasons. That is all that matters. Predicting how teams do isn't always the easiest thing in the world, even with extensive NFL knowledge. Hell, you predicted the Buccaneers to make the playoffs, that is far more ludicrous than thinking the Eagles might make it.

Which they might. The NFC East is going to come down to the wire.

Besides, what is the alternative? Which teams would you like to see on Prime Time more? I'm very interested. Because half of the NFL isn't very good, and that might be being generous. Do you want them to put the Dolphins on more? Or the Bucs? Or Rams?

Yea, NFC East gets a bit tiring to watch, but it makes sense. They have the most fanfare and at least none of the teams ever seem to flat-out suck other than like the Redskins, and it isn't like they get a ton of Prime Time games.

[The Legend]

^^^ One place they could at least start is I understand why all the Thursday Night matchups are divisional matchups. It makes sense since every team has to make one appearance. That being said, make Sunday and Monday night games cross-divisional or cross-conference with much more frequency. I'd be much more interested in seeing an NFC East team against Green Bay, Carolina, Atlanta, Seattle, Arizona, New England, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Denver, than I would in watching them play each other seemingly at least once every two weeks on either Sunday Night or Monday Night.

The second place they could start is having a more balanced schedule instead of the NFC East always getting nearly twice as many appearances as half the divisions in the NFL EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

Bottom line is I would rather watch probably two-thirds of NFL teams before watching an NFC East team. I find them all thoroughly uninteresting and playing a bad brand of football.

[Everlong]

I understand the whole thing about the NFC East teams having huge markets and it being good business to show them on TV, but that doesn't mean I don't get sick of it. These teams get so much coverage, and other actually good teams get ignored.

I wish the NFL would care more about giving us good games rather than giving us marketable games. The flex scheduling they introduced a few years ago was at least a good start. But there's no reason to have teams like the Redskins in prime time AT ALL, and no reason for the Giants to have four or five prime time games per year.

Part of the reason teams like the Panthers and Bengals don't get the respect they deserve is because national audiences aren't familiar with them at all. They're very rarely put into prime time.

Teams like the Lions when they're doing well, and even the Bears when they're doing well (despite being in a huge market) don't get a whole lot of prime time love. Nor do the Falcons.

I'm sick of being forced to watch shitty east coats teams play bad football while the media jerks them off just because they're in big markets.

[The Legend]

I understand the whole thing about the NFC East teams having huge markets and it being good business to show them on TV, but that doesn't mean I don't get sick of it. These teams get so much coverage, and other actually good teams get ignored.

I wish the NFL would care more about giving us good games rather than giving us marketable games. The flex scheduling they introduced a few years ago was at least a good start. But there's no reason to have teams like the Redskins in prime time AT ALL, and no reason for the Giants to have four or five prime time games per year.

Part of the reason teams like the Panthers and Bengals don't get the respect they deserve is because national audiences aren't familiar with them at all. They're very rarely put into prime time.

Teams like the Lions when they're doing well, and even the Bears when they're doing well (despite being in a huge market) don't get a whole lot of prime time love. Nor do the Falcons.

I'm sick of being forced to watch shitty east coats teams play bad football while the media jerks them off just because they're in big markets.

Thank you Tim, you succinctly said exactly what I was trying to say all along. The NFL is clear they don't care how good teams are. In the regular season they have a huge east coast bias in both conferences, followed by a west coast bias in both conferences. Teams and their fans in the middle of the country get totally ignored for the most part. Indy is the only team that has been able to break through the coastal bias pretty much at all to get consistent coverage and respect on a national scale.

[Everlong]

Indy is the only team that has been able to break through the coastal bias pretty much at all to get consistent coverage and respect on a national scale.

The Packers get pretty thorough coverage too, though my guess is if they were to ever become as regularly mediocre as the Redskins or even "occasionally decent" like the Giants they'd never get the same amount of coverage.

[The Legend]

Indy is the only team that has been able to break through the coastal bias pretty much at all to get consistent coverage and respect on a national scale.

The Packers get pretty thorough coverage too, though my guess is if they were to ever become as regularly mediocre as the Redskins or even "occasionally decent" like the Giants they'd never get the same amount of coverage.

Even the Packers though I can't help, but feel would be treated differently if they were in Boston or NY or Cali or Texas. It's almost like they say, well I guess we've gotta talk about the Packers now. And even when they do talk about the Packers it's only Rodgers, like they can't stop him becoming a star, but they'll be damned if any other player in Green Bay, Wisconsin manages to become a star or household name.

[Messiah]

I understand the whole thing about the NFC East teams having huge markets and it being good business to show them on TV, but that doesn't mean I don't get sick of it. These teams get so much coverage, and other actually good teams get ignored.

I wish the NFL would care more about giving us good games rather than giving us marketable games. The flex scheduling they introduced a few years ago was at least a good start. But there's no reason to have teams like the Redskins in prime time AT ALL, and no reason for the Giants to have four or five prime time games per year.

Part of the reason teams like the Panthers and Bengals don't get the respect they deserve is because national audiences aren't familiar with them at all. They're very rarely put into prime time.

Teams like the Lions when they're doing well, and even the Bears when they're doing well (despite being in a huge market) don't get a whole lot of prime time love. Nor do the Falcons.

I'm sick of being forced to watch shitty east coats teams play bad football while the media jerks them off just because they're in big markets.

Well what would your alternative be?

You say the Lions when they are doing well don't get a lot of prime time love. Well they have 4 Prime Time games this year (the most a team can get in any given year is 5 IIRC), and that doesn't even include their Thanksgiving game or their game in London. And what is their record? Of course the NFL is going to be hesitant to give teams like the Lions a lot of Prime Time games for this reason. They have a patchy history and tend to suck more often that not. Cowboys, Eagles, and Giants, even when they aren't good, usually hover around 8-8 at least.

Falcons? After they went 13-3 in 2012, they were given 4 Prime Time games as well. As a matter of fact, I remember the Falcons playing a lot on Prime Time during their good years.

Bears, for as bad as they have been, still got 2 Prime Time games this year. They received 3 and a London game after 2010, when they made the NFC Championship game. They had 5 Prime Time games in 2013. Hell they had 5 Prime Time games last year. The NFL does put these teams on Prime Time.

What exactly do you guys think the NFL should do? You say a team like the Redskins shouldn't be on Prime Time at all, even though the Redskins are better than some teams in the NFL. You don't want the NFC East to get as many Prime Time games. So who should be getting these Prime Time games? Jaguars? Buccaneers? Rams? Titans?

I mean damn near the entire nation thought the Panthers sucked before this season, despite facts proving otherwise. So let's not pretend like the NFL should have given them 5 Prime Time games and the world would have approved of it before the season. I don't know what you two want the NFL to do honestly.

[Messiah]

Patriots have 4 Prime Time games this year
Packers have 5
Seahawks have 5
Cardinals have 3
Bengals have 4
Steelers have 5
Ravens have 5

And that is just naming some of the playoff teams from last year. So which teams would you guys have rather seen take the NFC East's Prime Time games away from them, given almost all of the other teams people considered good before the season already have 5, the most you can get?

[Messiah]

Even the Packers though I can't help, but feel would be treated differently if they were in Boston or NY or Cali or Texas. It's almost like they say, well I guess we've gotta talk about the Packers now. And even when they do talk about the Packers it's only Rodgers, like they can't stop him becoming a star, but they'll be damned if any other player in Green Bay, Wisconsin manages to become a star or household name.

Well of course not. The California, Boston, and New York media is bigger than the one in Green Bay. This has nothing to do with not "allowing" another Green Bay player to become a star and more because the exposure you get in somewhere like New York is larger. Besides, the Packers have 5 Prime Time games this year. Let's not pretend like they don't get plenty of exposure by the NFL. Hell Rodgers is one of the 5 most over-hyped players in the NFL (and I don't mean that in a bad way, but he gets hyped up like crazy).

The NFL is clear they don't care how good teams are.

Yes they do. I don't know why you want to act like they don't. The Lions for example got 4 Prime Time games this year, again not even including the London game or the Thanksgiving game. You hate the NFC East and that is fine, but they do give other teams an opportunity. And when they do and they suck, I'm sure you're one of the first people talking about how MNF/SNF/TNF sucks.

As a matter of fact, TNF is proof why they don't give teams like the Titans and Jaguars a chance. People routinely mock TNF as being terrible football because the match-ups aren't appealing.

[Everlong]

The last time the Giants and Cowboys played in a 1 PM game was 2005. All of their last 20 games have been nationally televised on either MNF, SNF or America's Game of the Week on Sunday afternoons.

You can't tell me that's not absurd.

[Messiah]

The last time the Giants and Cowboys played in a 1 PM game was 2005. All of their last 20 games have been nationally televised on either MNF, SNF or America's Game of the Week on Sunday afternoons.

You can't tell me that's not absurd.

I don't disagree with you and didn't say otherwise. If the argument was about the amount of NFC East vs NFC East games they put on Prime Time, it would be a different story. They tend to do that more than they do for any other division.

However, when it comes to the amount of games each NFC East team individually gets, I'm confused as to what the alternative is supposed to be. None of the teams get that much more Prime Time games than the other teams in the league as I have shown above. It just feels that way because I reckon the hate for the NFC East is much greater and because they usually play each other in said games.

[The Legend]

The average NFC East team gets 4 prime time games EVERY year with Thursday Night Football as a full schedule. The other 28 teams in the NFL get an average of 3 prime time games every year. That's one more game per year for every team or four games per year for the division which means the NFC East is likely to be on national TV one more time per month than every other team, how is that not a noticeable difference?

[Messiah]

The average NFC East team gets 4 prime time games EVERY year with Thursday Night Football as a full schedule. The other 28 teams in the NFL get an average of 3 prime time games every year. That's one more game per year for every team or four games per year for the division which means the NFC East is likely to be on national TV one more time per month than every other team, how is that not a noticeable difference?

So then tell me the alternative.

I enjoy how you keep dodging the question. Tell me what teams should be getting these Prime Time games that you reckon we should take away from the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles. You can't give them to most of last years playoff teams because they already have 4 or 5 Prime Time games. So who are you giving them to? The Jaguars?

[Messiah]

I will even help you out with a complete list.

AFC East: Patriots (5), Dolphins (2), Jets (2), Bills (2)
AFC South: Jaguars (1), Colts (5), Titans (1), Texans (2)
AFC West: Broncos (5), Chargers (4), Raiders (1), Chiefs (3)
AFC North: Ravens (5), Steelers (5), Bengals (4), Browns (2)

NFC East: Cowboys (4), Giants (5), Eagles (4), Redskins (2) (less than the AFC North)
NFC South: Panthers (2), Falcons (2), Saints (3), Buccaneers (1)
NFC West: Seahawks (5), 49ers (4), Cardinals (3), Rams (1)
NFC North: Packers (5), Vikings (2), Lions (4), Bears (2)

I won't even force you to go in-depth and look at the match-ups, because that is also a factor in giving a team X amount of Prime Time games, as it isn't as simple as just taking one off the Cowboys and giving 1 to the Cardinals. I'll just ask you straight up who should be getting the Prime Time games you take away from the NFC East.

Can't give them to the Packers, Seahawks, Ravens, Steelers, Colts, Broncos, or Patriots. Also don't try and pretend like you thought the Panthers and Falcons were going to be good before the season. Be reasonable. Who would you have given these Prime Time games to before the season? I mean, you could give 2 to the Cardinals and 1 to the Bengals, but then why wouldn't you just take those Prime Time games away from the 49ers instead?

What is your alternative?

[The Legend]

^^^ First, start with expanding SNF flex scheduling to allow you to put whatever the best matchup happens to be for a given week is in prime time. Second, for Monday Night Football, just make it more balanced so every division gets close to representative involvement in one fashion or another.

[Messiah]

^^^ First, start with expanding SNF flex scheduling to allow you to put whatever the best matchup happens to be for a given week is in prime time.

There are a lot of flaws with this idea. It's good in theory but Fox/CBS would hate this, that is why they protect certain games. They don't want to constantly have to deal with not being able to get the best game of the week. That is why, while they do flex scheduling now, they are only allowed to do it twice between Weeks 5 and 11 IIRC. I remember one time the NFL couldn't flex a game out because Fox protected it. So this doesn't fall on the NFL.

And the MNF idea implies that every division is created equal. It's hard for the AFC South to have near equal representation when the division sucks.

[The Legend]

^^^ First, start with expanding SNF flex scheduling to allow you to put whatever the best matchup happens to be for a given week is in prime time.

There are a lot of flaws with this idea. It's good in theory but Fox/CBS would hate this, that is why they protect certain games. They don't want to constantly have to deal with not being able to get the best game of the week. That is why, while they do flex scheduling now, they are only allowed to do it twice between Weeks 5 and 11 IIRC. I remember one time the NFL couldn't flex a game out because Fox protected it. So this doesn't fall on the NFL.

And the MNF idea implies that every division is created equal. It's hard for the AFC South to have near equal representation when the division sucks.

It's not saying every division is created equal. It's simply stating the NFC East wasn't created and maintained as superior to everyone else, because it's not superior to everyone else. That's the thing that we seem to have a disconnect with, I'm not complaining about a one year anomaly, I'm complaining about the systematic annual placing of the NFC East on a pedestal it doesn't deserve to be on.