Reporter and cameraman shot on live TV; suspect at large

[Locke]

My fear has always been and will always be that it will only result in "bad guys having guns" and "good guys being unarmed," period.

I have to say though, the amount of scary looking people I see going in and out of the pawn shop across the street from my barber shop carrying in and carrying out powerful guns (not just your average farmer's rifle) is terrifying. I'll profile the fuck out of them, they're all the same looking types of people, driving cars that cost LESS than the guns they are bringing in or buying.. mohawks, tats, piercings, it's all stereotypical white trash that look like they need ZERO guns and they look like they're arming themselves for fucking zombie apocalypse. I feel they need MUCH DEEPER background checks or something being done to slow down their rate of weaponizing, I admit it freely after seeing it daily for a couple of years now. Scares the shit out of me thinking that once laws are passed, those same people will just go to some shmuck's trunk and pay ten times the price to get them, but still get them, while others who wish to abide by the law will just be unarmed. But the thing is, I'm still basically unarmed.. I have that "farmer's rifle" in a closet somewhere in my house, but if some guy busted into my house with an AK47 we'd all be dead.. so I dunno why I fear it'd be any different for me, but for others it might be.

Terrifying shit, either way you crack it.

[Viazon]

I never realized how insane the gun thing was in America until I went into a Walmart. It was just surreal to me that you can buy a gun in the same place you buy your milk and bread.

[Daz]

My fear has always been and will always be that it will only result in "bad guys having guns" and "good guys being unarmed," period.

Maybe that's the case, but having both parties armed doesn't make the situation any less volatile. It stands to reason that having less guns and making them harder access across the board means less people will have them, be they "good" or "bad".

[Locke]

My fear has always been and will always be that it will only result in "bad guys having guns" and "good guys being unarmed," period.

Maybe that's the case, but having both parties armed doesn't make the situation any less volatile. It stands to reason that having less guns and making them harder access across the board means less people will have them, be they "good" or "bad".

Indeed, but the problem lies in how they decrease the number that's already out there. You try taking a gun away from a fucking redneck, m8, I ain't doing it. It will start a war the likes of which you've never seen.

A good start might be to start destroying every gun confiscated from any armed criminal, though. While you're booking them in and getting their prints, you're destroying their guns they had on them. I'd be down for that.

[SortaCreative]

My fear has always been and will always be that it will only result in "bad guys having guns" and "good guys being unarmed," period.

Maybe that's the case, but having both parties armed doesn't make the situation any less volatile. It stands to reason that having less guns and making them harder access across the board means less people will have them, be they "good" or "bad".

Indeed, but the problem lies in how they decrease the number that's already out there. You try taking a gun away from a fucking redneck, m8, I ain't doing it. It will start a war the likes of which you've never seen.

A good start might be to start destroying every gun confiscated from any armed criminal, though. While you're booking them in and getting their prints, you're destroying their guns they had on them. I'd be down for that.

It'd take a long time. In Austrailia it took a while. They even had help. I can't see the NRA helping with a cleanup process.

[Locke]

I think it worked in Australia because they didn't have US Southerners. We would fucking kill you all, just saying.

And by "we" I don't mean me, I mean all of our crazy hillbillies. Ever seen Deliverance? Oh yeah buddy, that'd be your pasty white butt cheeks.

[War Daddy]

I think it worked in Australia because they didn't have US Southerners. We would fucking kill you all, just saying.

And by "we" I don't mean me, I mean all of our crazy hillbillies. Ever seen Deliverance? Oh yeah buddy, that'd be your pasty white butt cheeks.

Sad but true. In any country side, farm, or rural side of any state. I would outlaw the big guns that civilians have no need for but allow for permits on the smaller guns. I'm for protection in any way you can get it, but i'm also against owning big senseless guns, I can never really explain it.

Also, Europeans just wanna un-arm us for the second round of the Revolution. They're still salty about the first outcome

[Locke]

Yeah, I don't know why people think they need AR16's or whatever but FUCK THEM. So stupid.

We've got fucking Mountain Lions (Cougars) out here, a simple rifle still does the job.

[Hanley!]

Gun control did work in Australia though. I mean it's not going to be the exact same situation as in the United States, because no two situations are ever exactly the same. But why ignore the best evidence we have out there that this kind of approach actually does work? They introduced gun control and they've had zero mass shootings since. That's the kind of number that every country should be shooting for.

Part of this is a cultural thing though. Americans are thought that guns are a right, which isn't true in most other countries in the world. So they think about them differently. They also grow up with guns being more of a presence, so even though they're more likely to get killed by them than we are, they're also less afraid of them because they're part of their every day surroundings to an extent.

One of my major arguments in favour of introducing gun control has always been this: I live in Ireland. We have gun control. Very few people own guns in this country. Most of our police don't even have guns, as there isn't the need for them. Our gun violence is incredibly low. And you have no idea how much safer I feel than you, every single day. My brother is a teacher and once held a job in one of the most dangerous neighbourhoods in Dublin. I didn't feel half as worried for him there as when he moved to America and taught in a regular Catholic school.

[Locke]

I like this dialogue you have going on about Americans being taught "guns are right." Please continue, Mr. Ireland, tell me more.

I only ever saw guns on TV when I was growing up, or when my father went deer hunting to put meat on the table when we were poor(er). We've since broken through that "glass ceiling" of poverty and he quit hunting when I was about to finish my last year of school. No one ever taught me that "guns were right" or "guns were good" and the only people who say that are fucking NRA nuts and nobody "round these parts" likes them.. and we're kinda redneck hillbillies here.

However, if I see a gun that's not loaded, I don't shit my pants in fear. I happen to own a hunting rifle and a shotgun, too. They're never used, but I own them. They're also ancient and unregistered and I only ever had a hunter's safety class when I was a kid (too long ago to remember) but using common sense keeps me pretty safe.

It's so weird, I really don't give a fuck about guns. I could NOT care less if the government took every single one of them away, because I don't live under the delusions that if the government decided to attack its own people that a shotgun would be able to do a damn thing against a fucking tank or B2-Bomber. However, I think it's all the misconceptions about every person that owns a gun or doesn't shit their pants when they see one, I almost feel violated.

Gun owners aren't a race or anything, but "stereotyping cunts" doesn't sound as good. You're all racist cunts! You foreign bastards.

[SlightlyJames]

That's the kind of number that every country should be shooting for.

Hehe

I like this dialogue you have going on about Americans being taught "guns are right." Please continue, Mr. Ireland, tell me more.

You've excluded a somewhat pivotal word there. He said you're taught guns that are a right. As in an entitlement. Not that they're righteous or whatever.

[Locke]

You've excluded a somewhat pivotal word there. He said you're taught guns that are a right. As in opposed to a privilege. Not that they're righteous or whatever.

Whoops. It's a similar thing, though, isn't it? Obviously if we thought guns were "wrong" they wouldn't be "a right," AMIRITE? Who fuckin' cares, my point stays the same.

In the end, I guess all I'm trying to say is that I get it, the writing is on the wall, in the stats, it's blatantly obvious. We need HARD gun control. A license, just like with cars. Laws that punish people if they're say, drinking while wielding/carrying (just like drinking and driving), and it needs to be respected A LOT MORE than just letting any Jimbob go out there and buy a fucking gun (I know a ten year old kid that owns 14 guns, it's fucking stupid as hell). I get that. I -want- that. Enough's enough. My problem is the way it's stated (not just here but all over) that every American is some gun-slinging cowboy when it's not true, and I don't appreciate being painted that way even though I -do- own guns. I'm not completely fucking retarded so I don't abuse my guns, but it's obvious, like every single other thing in this world, there are too many fuckwits out there that ruin things for the rest of us. I just don't want to be painted as one of them.

[Str8Shooter]

My problem is the way it's stated (not just here but all over) that every American is some gun-slinging cowboy when it's not true, and I don't appreciate being painted that way even though I -do- own guns.

Shouldn't the very fact that people around the World in other countries have that image of Americans be even more fuel to having stricter gun control? That stereotype as it may be, wouldn't exists if things like this didn't happen so much and are followed by this gun "debate".

[Hanley!]

However, if I see a gun that's not loaded, I don't shit my pants in fear.

I would though. That's the difference. I would not be comfortable around any gun. It's that foreign a thing to me. Americans are more used to them than us, even those who don't any or don't know anyone that owns any. They're still much more a part of your society, culture and history.

I don't picture every American as a gun nut at all, I know a lot of Americans who are very much in favour of gun control. I'm just talking about American society in general. There is a romantic notion of guns among some parts of the country that doesn't exist in a lot of other countries.

[SortaCreative]

It's difficult for us to understand. We don't have the same ingrained view of guns. They're not a "constitutional right". My novice understanding of that Amendment is the right to arm against an oppressive government. Nothing about random Joe owning a automatic rifle. I may be wrong about that and I apologise if I am but I have to ask:

If your guns are your right to protect yourself (to bear arms against the government, i.e form a militia. A military unit) against a tyrannical government. Where were they when the government has been recently taking away your rights to privacy? Surely that's what the second amendment is there for. This can only lead me to think that's really not what it's about. I actually like the idea around the people having the right to forcefully hold the government to account even though the idea of accountability coming through military action a little outdated.

I'm asking seriously, we don't learn about American History much and this is all i've gleaned from reading stuff online. I'd like to be put right if I am wrong so I don't continue to be misinformed.

[Ali]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

That is the EXACT TEXT of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution. That's it. From that text, there have been various interpretations and whatnot which I'm not totally familiar with. It was not added in response to the Civil War, it was there from the beginning.

[Circled Square]

Have been busy lately and didn't get a chance to post this.

[Daz]

Those stats don't really mean anything though, because you can't really call it a ban if you can just drive to the next state and buy a gun anyway.

And the language in the graphic used is ridiculous. "162,000 citizens saved per year using a firearm" doesn't take into account potential victims from said firearms. And you can argue that those potential victims would be criminals, but a human life is still a human life, and other countries manage to subdue criminals just fine without the use of guns.

And right to carry laws isn't a solution to crime, it's a fucking powder keg. Living in fear of who may or may not have a gun is no way to live.

[Circled Square]

When I walk down the street I'm not scared that a car will decide to run me over just like I'm not afraid of guns when I visit the states.

The government is evil, oppressive and corrupt.
So let's have them be the only ones armed.
Cops are abusive racist assholes.
You don't need guns, you have cops.

You see what I'm saying? I'm not putting it eloquently but their is a hole in the Left's position on guns. It's a sympton of the Left having convictions that are a mile wide but not an inch deep. Say what you like about gun shooting rednecks, at least they only talk about issues that they know about. Well, usually.

I still am undecided on guns. I think both sides have compelling arguments. It's tough to find a middle ground.

[Daz]

For once I'm not actively disagreeing with you.

The government is absolutely corrupt, which is why nothing has been done about gun control for the past decade, despite the ridiculous amount of public shootings that have taken place in that time. Some police are racist assholes who aren't fit to either protect or serve the community, and I'm of the opinion they shouldn't have guns either. A large number of countries function without police carrying firearms.

I think there are holes in the argument on both sides, until you boil it down to do people have the right to carry around deadly weapons? The answer is always gonna be no. You can make the car analogy and any over analogy you want, but a car wasn't designed to kill another human being, and a gun was. That's the difference.