A question

[Circled Square]

This is just to start some political banter.



Children can't consent to have sex. They do not have the experience in life to consent.
Children CAN consent to a sex change. They have enough experience in life to consent to that.

Do you agree with this thinking, or does anybody else see a glaring hole in this argument?

Edit: They consent to hormone therapy. I don't think 3 year olds get their naughty bits altered.

[Daz]

I think you're being a little bit inflamatory, correlating the age of consent to identifying as a different gender. It's not even remotely the same thing.

But for the most part, I do think the age of 3 is probably a little bit young for this sort of decision. On the other hand, it's not as if a doctor is gonna get a 3 year old on hormone replacements and whatnot, so until the kid is old enough to understand and make the decision with a more informed and mature opinion, it's gonna be just dressing them in different clothes and calling them by a different name etc. so there's no actual harm in it.

[Circled Square]

I think they have something in common. Sex is sex. If you can't consent to have sex at 13-14 or whatever, and you can consent to change genders, go through hormone therapy, it's just....weird, I don't know - not the transexuals being "weird", but the idea that kids can go through these changes but we're so afraid of sex.

I mean Jesus i played house as a kid and I probably was cooking and cleaning like the mom or some shit at some point. Imagine if my mom started me on hormone therapy? I'd be dead by now.

[Daz]

I think they have something in common. Sex is sex. If you can't consent to have sex at 13-14 or whatever, and you can consent to change genders, go through hormone therapy, it's just....weird, I don't know - not the transexuals being "weird", but the idea that kids can go through these changes but we're so afraid of sex.

I mean Jesus i played house as a kid and I probably was cooking and cleaning like the mom or some shit at some point. Imagine if my mom started me on hormone therapy? I'd be dead by now.

I think there's a difference between taking on the "mum" role in a game, or picking up a doll or whatever, to feeling like you're in the wrong body. It's a complicated issue, and who's to say, a kid who probably has no informed information about transexuality and gender disassociation, can't suffer from it? If anything, it adds credence to the actual existence of it. If it's the parents that are pushing it and the kid is resistance, then obviously it's an entirely different story.

Like I said though, doctors aren't likely to put a kid so young on hormone treatments. And there wouldn't be any need to anyway, until the kid hit purberty. And by that age, they may have changed their mind etc. Dressing a girl like a boy and making their name more masculine to accomdate them (and vice versa) in the mean time isn't a diffocult compromise if it's a genuine situation.

Again though, I don't see the conflation between gender and sexual intercourse in this case, other than the word sex.

[Circled Square]

I think it's just interesting how parents are okay with this. I feel as if the kids are being a bit pushed into it. I have a hard time believing a 6 year old, or 3 year old boy has a pronouns issue. I think the people with the pronouns issue are using the kids as a sort of guilt trip, when in reality the kids don't give a shit. I strongly disagree with any sort of trans- anything before puberty.

[Westcoastvibes]

I think if legal age of consent is 18, legal age to smoke is 18, legal age to get tattoos is 18, legal age to get pierced is 18, legal age to enter a binding contract is 18, then why is hormone therapy or any type of gender reassignment procedures not.

All of these things are bound with a legal age because a person is not deemed responsible or mature enough to make these decisions prior to this age, why should something as life altering as a gender reassignment be any different?

[Hanley!]

^ You think there are parents out there who are pressuring their kids into being trans? That's paranoid and crazy, if you ask me. Nobody out there wants their kids to be different. Nobody wants them to be bullied, and to have identity issues and to feel insecure and out of place.

I'm all in favour of parents being supportive of their children - at whatever age - and helping them through any issues they're having with their gender identity. But the notion of there being some "trans agenda" is ludicrous to me.

I think part of where you're coming from is that children aren't going to know what gender they should be at a young age. They're still growing up and discovering themselves. And that's all true. I don't think there's any harm in experimenting though. There's no harm in allowing your children to explore who it is that they really are. At that age, it's not as if they're going to be able to get hormone treatments anyway. At that age, any experimentation they want to partake in will be voluntary and strictly temporary.

I reckon allowing children to be somewhat open to these ideas could save them a lot of awkwardness and heartache down the road. Repressing their feelings and going through a long and uncomfortable coming out process later in life is bound to be difficult, and it might lead to trans people taking longer to figure out who they really are.

[Kirbi]

I think it's just interesting how parents are okay with this. I feel as if the kids are being a bit pushed into it. I have a hard time believing a 6 year old, or 3 year old boy has a pronouns issue. I think the people with the pronouns issue are using the kids as a sort of guilt trip, when in reality the kids don't give a shit. I strongly disagree with any sort of trans- anything before puberty.

Isn't that kind of easy for you (or probably any of us) to say, without any personal experience of the issue? There's also the thought that if wait 'till puberty actually hits, that might be a bit late - i.e. to stop bodily changes that you might resent for the rest of your life.

Generally if there's hormone-related therapy for early-pubescent age children who identify as a gender that doesn't correlate with their birth sex, it is centered on delaying puberty until they're a bit older, and more able to speak authoritatively for themselves. Then, once they've been in various discussions and been living as their preferred gender for a significant amount of time (and obviously if they still really want to), they may move forward with hormone therapies to facilitate a bodily gender change.

[Daz]

I think it's just interesting how parents are okay with this. I feel as if the kids are being a bit pushed into it. I have a hard time believing a 6 year old, or 3 year old boy has a pronouns issue. I think the people with the pronouns issue are using the kids as a sort of guilt trip, when in reality the kids don't give a shit. I strongly disagree with any sort of trans- anything before puberty.

Isn't that kind of easy for you (or probably any of us) to say, without any personal experience of the issue? There's also the thought that if wait 'till puberty actually hits, that might be a bit late - i.e. to stop bodily changes that you might resent for the rest of your life.

Generally if there's hormone-related therapy for early-pubescent age children who identify as a gender that doesn't correlate with their birth sex, it is centered on delaying puberty until they're a bit older, and more able to speak authoritatively for themselves. Then, once they've been in various discussions and been living as their preferred gender for a significant amount of time (and obviously if they still really want to), they may move forward with hormone therapies to facilitate a bodily gender change.

This is pretty much where I'm at too.

Although it's a whole different story when actual surgeries come into play. That's a huge step, and I'm not sure an impulsive, young teenager should be making that decision. I'm sure there are regulations in place that prevent that sort of thing from taking place until they're 18 (maybe even older) but I'm too lazy and tired to go and look it up right now.

[Everlong]

I think three year olds are much too young to have any real solid grasp on gender identity, but I'm all for parents at least allowing an open, comfortable atmosphere for them to explore who they are, and that's in regard for everything from gender to what toys they like to play with.

The article you screenshotted appears to be a pretty clear clickbait kinda story anyway, because "transitioning" at age 3 isn't really something that would (or could) happen.

[lyonssv]

I coached tee ball this year and I had a four year old kid on my team that was introduced to me as "Ella". His parents informed me he was born Jack but he was transgender and now he goes by ella. To me, it was a horrendously jacked up situation. That is too young to make that kind of decision for a child that aren't even close to developing mentally, emotionally, or sexually.

So yes, I agree that this is too young for this happen. And it's not a decision for a parent to make for a child. And honestly it seemed like the parents just did it for attention.

[Twister]

And that's all true. I don't think there's any harm in experimenting though. There's no harm in allowing your children to explore who it is that they really are. At that age, it's not as if they're going to be able to get hormone treatments anyway. At that age, any experimentation they want to partake in will be voluntary and strictly temporary.

I reckon allowing children to be somewhat open to these ideas could save them a lot of awkwardness and heartache down the road. Repressing their feelings and going through a long and uncomfortable coming out process later in life is bound to be difficult, and it might lead to trans people taking longer to figure out who they really are.

This basically. I don't really believe in gender stereotypes in children. I think if you allow a child the freedom to express themselves regardless of gender stereotypes then you can't go far wrong to be honest. Encouraging them to be a good person, regardless of gender or gender identity is good enough.

I doubt any doctor would prescribe a child so young hormone treatments so that to me is a complete non-issue.

[Circled Square]

Nice discussion, good to know that these sorts of things can go well.