no charges for Ferguson police officer involved with brown shooting

[Westcoastvibes]

Being reported right now, Wilson will not face criminal charges for his involvement in the brown shooting.

[Messiah]

I think I'm the only black person in the world who honestly couldn't care less about this.

[DBSoT]

I am just really shocked this didn't go to trial. There was so many conflicting reports. You would think they would go to trial to flesh the evidence out.

[Westcoastvibes]

I am just really shocked this didn't go to trial. There was so many conflicting reports. You would think they would go to trial to flesh the evidence out.

From what I was watching it works the other way around, similar to a regular criminal investigation. The district attorney presents all of the information including witness testimonials, physical evidence and officer call logs to the grand jury. The grand jury then has to decide if there is enough concrete evidence to pursue charges. Just like a criminal investigation, they can not just arrest and send some guy to face charges if the evidence is cloudy or just not enough to be sure. An indictment is not a gate or portal to make more evidence show up, it's more like arresting someone on paper before putting cuffs on them, the evidence has to be there first.

now, this does not mean he is guilty or not guilty, it just means there was not enough concrete evidence to lean the scales either way.

[DBSoT]

I am just really shocked this didn't go to trial. There was so many conflicting reports. You would think they would go to trial to flesh the evidence out.

From what I was watching it works the other way around, similar to a regular criminal investigation. The district attorney presents all of the information including witness testimonials, physical evidence and officer call logs to the grand jury. The grand jury then has to decide if there is enough concrete evidence to pursue charges. Just like a criminal investigation, they can not just arrest and send some guy to face charges if the evidence is cloudy or just not enough to be sure. An indictment is not a gate or portal to make more evidence show up, it's more like arresting someone on paper before putting cuffs on them, the evidence has to be there first.

now, this does not mean he is guilty or not guilty, it just means there was not enough concrete evidence to lean the scales either way.

OK I see.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

America and it's "system" is so pathetic.

[Westcoastvibes]

America and it's "system" is so pathetic.

We are pathetic because we won't prosecute a man without just reason backed by evidence?

Should we label him a witch and stone him to death? Or maybe we could do a trial by fire first, if he doesn't burn to death then he is guilty and shall be stoned then.

Not defending the guy at all. but I do take offense when you say that our system, and us, are pathetic for having a due process designed to protect the innocent from being wrongfully imprisoned.

[DBSoT]

They people rioting are really just making this whole thing worst. The whole message they are trying to get across is lost by destruction and looting. Why destroy your own city in protest? The peaceful protest in NYC is just as effective and doesn't make your citizens look bad. Even the family pleaded with people to not riot, but instead help them in their fight to add cameras to police firearms.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

America and it's "system" is so pathetic.

We are pathetic because we won't prosecute a man without just reason backed by evidence?

Should we label him a witch and stone him to death? Or maybe we could do a trial by fire first, if he doesn't burn to death then he is guilty and shall be stoned then.

Not defending the guy at all. but I do take offense when you say that our system, and us, are pathetic for having a due process designed to protect the innocent from being wrongfully imprisoned.

The man is guilty, the evidence is all there. The fact that the prosecutors said "Wilson killed Brown", that's it. That's the case. HE KILLED A KID FOR NO REASON. He murdered a child. A FUCKING CHILD. A kid that was just getting ready to go to college and just like that his life was robbed by that racist pig.

This systematic oppression has existed for hundreds of years. The way this country operates is pathetic and I'm glad so many people on social media are speaking their minds and coming together.

[UTK]

It's not as if there was clear, indisputable evidence that the officer just shot the kid. The autopsy results favor the officer's story. This shouldn't be a shock to anybody.

[Messiah]

The man is guilty, the evidence is all there.

Lord, I hope if I'm ever arrested for a crime, you aren't a part of the jury for my trial.

[Westcoastvibes]

America and it's "system" is so pathetic.

We are pathetic because we won't prosecute a man without just reason backed by evidence?

Should we label him a witch and stone him to death? Or maybe we could do a trial by fire first, if he doesn't burn to death then he is guilty and shall be stoned then.

Not defending the guy at all. but I do take offense when you say that our system, and us, are pathetic for having a due process designed to protect the innocent from being wrongfully imprisoned.

The man is guilty, the evidence is all there. The fact that the prosecutors said "Wilson killed Brown", that's it. That's the case. HE KILLED A KID FOR NO REASON. He murdered a child. A FUCKING CHILD. A kid that was just getting ready to go to college and just like that his life was robbed by that racist pig.

This systematic oppression has existed for hundreds of years. The way this country operates is pathetic and I'm glad so many people on social media are speaking their minds and coming together.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you were on the grand jury and had access to ALL of the evidence available. The bottom line is this, people who handle this shit for a living prepared and presented a case to a jury of 12 persons. Out of those 12 persons, at least 8 of them decided that the evidence was not compelling enough to charge the man with a crime.

If you disagree that's fine, but don't get all self fucking righteous and start calling my country and it's process pathetic. Just because the result was not what you wanted does not give you the right to be a god dam name calling punk.

[The Legend]

Here's the thing that's tough to get behind. A grand jury typically would indict a ham sandwich. That's the line that is always used. The barrier of evidence for a grand jury to come back with a indictment and a path to trial is typically so low that when they don't come back with one in this case it's troubling.

[Romo]

[Everlong]

There's a whole lot to digest with this story. It's really difficult for me to form a coherent, concrete opinion. I can understand why the grand jury decided not to indict. I can understand why people are upset that they didn't. But there are way more shades of gray in this situation than people seem to be willing to admit, especially the people who don't believe that an indictment was necessary.

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fjs10st.pdf

Granted, this is for cases at large, not just police officers. I understand why there's additional consideration for cases involving police officers, but there is a ridiculously low rate of even INDICTMENT for cases in which officers kill a civilian. Not even conviction... the INDICTMENT rate is low. These guys aren't even getting put in front of a jury.

We're going to see the evidence from this case released to the public, so I guess I'll withhold additional judgment until then about whether or not he should have been indicted. It's really hard to say based on what we've been presented in the media.

But going back to the issue of race and the riots in the streets. Yes, it's absolutely despicable that people are burning their home town's streets up and looting stores. Yes, the violence is extremely unnecessary.

But to play devil's advocate, consider this: black men, women and children are slaughtered every day in the streets. Black-on-black crime makes up a significant portion of this, but the point stands: the inner cities across the nation are basically battlebrounds and innocent people are being murdered every. single. day. How often do any of these murders make the mainstream news? It takes an unusual case such as this one, a case in which a white police officer shot up an unarmed (yet potentially dangerous, who knows, we don't really have trustworthy witnesses it seems) black kid.

Nobody ever pays attention to the scores of murders that happen every single day in places like Ferguson. People don't give a damn, they really don't. The only time the nation begins to pay attention is when black people begin to amass and riot in the streets. It takes violence, looting and rioting for people to give them and their plight even a moment's notice. For once, white America is actually paying attention to what people living in heavily underprivileged neighborhoods are dealing with on an EVERYDAY basis.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at ALL justifying the violence and rioting happening in Ferguson. I think it's despicable, and that these people should be held responsible for their actions. But you also have to understand that these riots and this violence are a symptom of a much larger problem: these people have been marginalized and systematically oppressed for a couple hundred years, and we turn a blind eye to them until they can't take it any more and have to resort to extreme measures like this to get people to finally pay attention. Yet even this, their only way of getting people to notice them and their problems, only makes things worse for them, because people (understandably) look at what's happening in Ferguson and say, "why should I pity these people? This is why black people in America are only getting in the way of their own advancement."

Don't you see?! It's an incurable, vicious cycle because from the day a child is born into a poor black family in the ghetto, the chips are stacked against them in a monumental way for their entire life. They are forced into slums and segregated areas of cities specifically designed to keep the poor away from the middle and upper class. They are forced to go through public school systems where there is little security, where teachers might not necessary even have college degrees in education, and where there are extremely low academic standards. They grow up in families and in communities that have been hardened because of everything they've faced in their lifetime, so even when a lucky child is able to break free of the norm and start doing well in school or gets a good job, they're criticized for "acting white," because they've taken on characteristics of the people that have been systematically oppressing them for generations.

It's fucking pathetic, the whole situation, and Ferguson is just a tiny little microcosm of this. And what's even more pathetic is that nothing is going to ever change, at least not in our lifetimes. We're barely 50 years removed from desegregation of schools in America and everyone likes to pretend that we're living in a post-racial society, or they try to make half-assed attempts to improve the quality of life of our nation's poor black people without really paying attention to the issues that are actually at stake. (Like, for instance, affirmative action? A fucking joke. How about actually making an attempt to overhaul an educational and economic system that has poor/black people disadvantaged from day one, then you won't have to give them pity admission?)

Sorry for the rant, it's just such a frustrating story and I'm sick of these articles coming out that lack any understanding of the kind of nuanced layers involved in this situation. This is way bigger than cop-on-black violence, black-on-black violence, rioting, etc. This is about the way our systems and entities are set up.

People have been calling the people rioting in Ferguson monsters, and that's understandable, they're doing some horrific things. But who created the monsters in the first place?

[The Legend]

Here's the problem I have. Potentially there were two crimes committed and our legal system won't be hearing either of them. There's a breakdown in the justice system when days in court aren't even being had any more before guilt or innocence are determined.

[Racing Guy]

He wasn't a child. He was 18 years old, fully capable of making his own decisions and knowing what the costs might be. I hate that he was killed but he broke the law, then attacked a police officer. It's not like the officer just walked up to a random person and shot him.

[The Legend]

He wasn't a child. He was 18 years old, fully capable of making his own decisions and knowing what the costs might be. I hate that he was killed but he broke the law, then attacked a police officer. It's not like the officer just walked up to a random person and shot him.

He was barely 18, he was still a teenager. I don't know about you, but most of the people I know aren't exactly great decision makers at 18 years old. And no, there's no way that he could have known his actions would cost him his life. Even if he did steal cigars, the punishment for that as taught to everyone is a fine and maybe some jail time, not a death sentence.

As for the rest of what you said. It's not an undisputed fact that he attacked the officer in any way. That's only one account of what may have happened. That's what the day in court should have been for, to decide whether he attacked the officer first or not. If he did then fine, but if not then there's a major problem.

[Westcoastvibes]

The fact that the prosecutors said "Wilson killed Brown"

Yes, he did kill brown, was this not clear? does not mean he murdered him in cold blood.

HE KILLED A KID FOR NO REASON. He murdered a child. A FUCKING CHILD

He was legally an adult, he was legal to join the military, get married, file taxs, buy cigarettes, goto strip clubs, and much more. Just because he was still a teen does not mean he was a child.

just like that his life was robbed by that racist pig

Why is he a racist pig? did he roll up to brown and call him a ni**er? did he say/do anything that might be considered racist other than the fact that he is white and brown is black? So because a situation came about between a white man and a black man and the black man lost his life we automatically label the white man as a racist? that seems a bit racist in itself.


okay, now onto something I though should be seen and I will comment on also.

10 Things we should know about Browns death.

1. Hands up: St Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch said one of the issues that continued to generate conflicting testimony was whether Mr Brown had his hands up in surrender at any time while shots were being fired at him. Some witnesses said yes, some said no. "The description of how Mr Brown raised his hands is not consistent between witnesses," said McCulloch.

So the witness statements are conflicting? this leads into #2

2. The contradictions: McCulloch repeatedly said that some witnesses gave contradicting and/or shifting versions of what they thought they saw. Some of those who had said they witnessed the sequence of events first-hand later conceded they had not. Some witnesses "disappeared" when investigators sought to interview them.

so some witness stories varied when questioned again? some lied about seeing it first hand? some disappeared when additional interviews were required? seems shady.

3. The trigger: It is now clear 12 shots were fired by Officer Wilson, the last of which struck Mr Brown in the top of the head. He was hit 7 times. The deadly encounter started while Officer Wilson was seated in his police cruiser. The first two shots were fired by the officer while still in the car. Most witnesses said that at that time, Mr Brown was leaning through the driver’s side window. The victim’s blood was found inside and outside the car and on the officer’s clothing. A bullet was lodged in the armrest.

so two shots were fired from inside the car with witnesses saying brown was leaning threw the window, bullet was found in the vehicles arm rest, blood inside the car, and (not in this article) brown was shot in the left hand somewhere around his thumb. sound to me like brown had his hand around the barrel of the gun when it was fired, seems consitent with a struggle for control of the firearm.

4. Short time, long time: The time between Officer Wilson spotting Mr Brown and the last shot being fired was 90 seconds. The time Mr Brown's body was left lying on the street: 4 hours.

I know the 4 hour thing is disturbing to some, mainly family. this does not seem extreme though, after the shooting I would imagine alot would have to be documented with pictures and video, the medical examiner would need to arrive, collect evidence and whatnot, then clear the scene before the body could be removed. in such a case I dont think it was abnormal.

5. Outside the car: Ten of the twelve shots were fired after Officer Wilson got out of his cruiser. Mr Brown’s body was found 153 feet away. All the fatal shots were fired when Mr Brown was away from the police car. While some witnesses said he was fleeing the car when they were fired, a greater number of witnesses said they came as the victim was moving towards the officer, McCulloch said.

the amount of shots seems excessive, only 7 hit so 5 missed. one I know hit his thumb/hand, one in the head so 5 others are unknown. troubling thing is the witness testimonies, with the majority saying brown was moving towards the officer contradicting what we were led to think by the media

6. Cigarillos: McCulloch indicated that Officer Wilson was aware of a report of a “strong-arm” robbery at a nearby corner shop when he spotted him and another man walking down the centre of a street and challenged them from his car and had connected them with that incident. Cigarillos had been stolen; Brown was carrying cigarillos.

So the officer was contacting the pair as potential suspects in a strong arm robbery.

7. Struggle: Along with the pages and pages of testimony the grand jury that were released last night by the prosecutors there are also pictures, including some taken of the face and neck of Officer Wilson after the shooting during a medical examination. They show redness and swelling, apparently due to a struggle in the car with Brown.

So brown was shot while part of him was inside the police car, the officer has marks on his body as a result from a struggle. again, sounds like brown attacked the officer and then a struggle for the firearm happen.

8. Racial profiles: Brown was black, Wilson is white. The grand jury was 75 per cent white, 25 per cent black. St Louis County is 70 per cent white.

Seems fair.

9.The slog: The grand jury listened to 70 hours of testimony from about 60 witnesses, including three medical examiners. They also heard from Darren Wilson, the officer who fired the shots. It met on 25 separate days.

10. Not all over: Eric Holder, the US Attorney General, reminded Americans that while the work of the grand jury in St Louis County is done two federal probes remain ongoing. One could in theory lead to federal charges against Officer Wilson, though that seems unlikely. The second is a much broader inquiry into whether Ferguson police are guilty of a pattern of discriminatory behaviour.

So this may not be over.


At the end of this, I see a fairly complex case that has points to both sides on if charges should be brought. but, with the complexity, conflicting statements, changes in stories and everything else, I can understand why the grand jury decided that the evidence was not concrete enough to place charges.

[The Legend]

^^^ Here's the thing. All that I read of your account means things were in question. Is that a fair assessment? That things were unclear? If things were unclear then it is the role of a jury to decide those questions. The grand jury should have seen that it was enough to question what happened. The only time an indictment shouldn't be filed is when it is blatantly obvious that the person in question didn't commit a crime.