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Terror incidents in London

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Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 03, '17, 5:30 pm

Things aren't clear yet but it looks bad
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby AkydefGoldberg » Jun 03, '17, 5:46 pm

It's possible there have been three attacks in close proximity. Frightening stuff for all those involved and wish people on social media would share messages of help/support rather than speculating and spreading division.

Thinking of the victims and everyone in London..
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 03, '17, 5:57 pm

The Vauxhall incident was unrelated to the London Bridge and Borough Market attacks as they've been labeled as terrorism according to police.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 03, '17, 6:08 pm

Sick of this shit.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby PorkChop » Jun 03, '17, 6:12 pm

Daz wrote:Sick of this shit.

Our third terrorist attack in as many months, and second in two weeks.

What the fuck is wrong with people.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 04, '17, 8:28 am

This is us. This is our world now. You're not having a bad dream, you didn't wake up in hell.
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Last edited by Circled Square on Jun 04, '17, 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 04, '17, 8:54 am

You're not wrong.

I'm tired of all the empty gestures, and prayers and "thoughts are with you." ... just all the empty gestures. And on the other side of the fence, I'm sick of all the calls to "boot them out" "round 'em up and lock them up" and "bring back hanging" rhetoric. Cause neither one of those sides does any good or actually addresses the issue.

We've got a PM who'll say enough is enough, whilst simultaneously cutting funding to police and continuing to sell arms to the Saudi's, and having emissaries tells us in live debates that it's a good thing... like fuck it is.

And you've got a President in the US, who'd use the opportunity to push a political agenda that only serves to create more division in the face of tragedy, because he's a fucking moron.

The left feel the need to assert radical terrorists aren't representative of 1.8 billion people, which should go with out saying, but doing so as a reactionary reflex when shit like this happens just feels disingenuous. Although even having said that, I want to point out all the attacks in the middle east and places like Pakistan that are missing from the list in that image -- but they don't count right? Cause ISIS attacking and killing other Muslims doesn't fit the narrative. The right meanwhile call all Islam barbaric and continue to feel justified in their hatred, no matter how misguided and ridiculous it is. I saw someone claim no other religion commits terrorist acts which is either wilful ignorance to push agenda, straight up stupidity, or a serious cognitive dissonance. And Trump trying to make this most recent attack about guns ... cause why ... who the fuck knows. And then you get all his cult like little followers trying to defend all the mass shootings in America, claiming it's not a terrorist act because the perpetrator was a "lone wolf" and it wasn't politically motivated ... as if gun control wasn't one of the biggest issues discussed, politically, every fucking election cycle. It's just about defending "your side" as if the right and left where somehow teams and not loosely defined descriptors of your political leanings.

And all the time whilst this bullshit is happening, the fact that people fucking died when they didn't have to seems to get lost.

I'm rambling again.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 04, '17, 10:43 am

I see it coming down to either deporting and arresting those on watch lists or turning your country into a police state with armed cops everywhere, invasions of privacy run a muck and potential internet censorship. I know Brits are stoic in nature, and try not to let events like this rattle your psyche, but the line between standing with your chin up in the face of danger and submitting to Jihad is getting closer to being crossed imo.

You mentioned the fact that terrorism that's in the middle east or elsewhere gets less coverage and hash tag sympathy than the ones in the west. To me, it's because that behavior is not shocking over there, but we expect more in the western world. I think the bridge between left and right can be built on a mutual dissatisfaction with government. The right are pissed that the terrorists aren't in some cave somewhere in the middle east, the left are pissed at the culture of hate that's been created due to terrorism that's been largely caused by unnecessary meddling in the middle east. Common enemy is the government.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 04, '17, 11:09 am

Circled Square wrote:I see it coming down to either deporting and arresting those on watch lists or turning your country into a police state with armed cops everywhere, invasions of privacy run a muck and potential internet censorship. I know Brits are stoic in nature, and try not to let events like this rattle your psyche, but the line between standing with your chin up in the face of danger and submitting to Jihad is getting closer to being crossed imo.

You mentioned the fact that terrorism that's in the middle east or elsewhere gets less coverage and hash tag sympathy than the ones in the west. To me, it's because that behavior is not shocking over there, but we expect more in the western world. I think the bridge between left and right can be built on a mutual dissatisfaction with government. The right are pissed that the terrorists aren't in some cave somewhere in the middle east, the left are pissed at the culture of hate that's been created due to terrorism that's been largely caused by unnecessary meddling in the middle east. Common enemy is the government.


Common enemy is indeed the government, and yet people will still vote against their best interests. The Tories over here are already trying to use this most recent attack to push more internet surveillance and monitoring. It's such bullshit and so transparent. They imposed all these filters and stuff a few years ago under the pretence it was to catch paedophiles ... but all it did was filter google search results. Now we've got ISP providers keeping track of our browsing history. Now they just want to straight up start restricting sites ... I thought we were supposed to be free in the west?

The problem when it comes to deporting is the fact that most of the attacks are carried out are from citizens ... so really, where are we gonna deport them to? So then what, arrest and detain everyone on the terror watch list... where do we detain them? For how long? And then if you break it down even further, how does one get put on a terror watch list? What if someone was only on the list for attending the same mosque as somebody who did carry out an attack. They could be completely innocent, and then suddenly, detained. And what if attacks continue after the whole terrorist watch list have been detained ... how long before it changes to every Muslim in England, just to be safe? These sort of thoughts seemed impossible and ridiculous not to long ago, and now it seems we're one more attack away from people taking them seriously.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 04, '17, 11:20 am

The reason why those thoughts are becoming widespread is because the left aren't presenting solutions. Sitting on your ass waiting for the next attack as the previous one gets sucked down the memory hole isn't going to solve the problem. Eventually, the anger will swell, and people will gravitate to anything no matter how immoral or extreme to alleviate the problem.

Actually I almost want to take some of that back, as both sides of your government that aren't fringe are absolutely useless when it comes to solving problems without hurting their own people.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 04, '17, 12:07 pm

Circled Square wrote:The reason why those thoughts are becoming widespread is because the left aren't presenting solutions. Sitting on your ass waiting for the next attack as the previous one gets sucked down the memory hole isn't going to solve the problem. Eventually, the anger will swell, and people will gravitate to anything no matter how immoral or extreme to alleviate the problem.


You're right, the left aren't presenting solutions, but neither are the right in my opinion.

The right, by and large, respond with reactionary propaganda (like Trump's travel ban, which anyone with common sense can see would be ineffective) that plays into the terrorist's hands, creating more fear and division. The Conservatives are doing it right now in the General Election. They attacked Corbyn personally, turns out, people quite like him. So they attacked Diane Abbott, and the idea of her becoming Home Secretary -- never mind that the Prime Minister who used to be Home Secretary did actual damage to the police force in this country -- and in response to this attack, people like Boris Johnson have released statements like "this is proof Corbyn can't keep us safe" ... even though he's not even in power.

And when somebody on the left like Corbyn has addressed the issue, holding our foreign policy accountable, he's called a terrorist sympathiser and branded a traitor. We're just so entrenched in the sport of wanting our team to win, people are discredited even when they're correct, it's preventing the real conversations from taking place, and so we're all losing.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 04, '17, 12:23 pm

I think doing nothing and succumbing to political deadlock does more to enable terrorism than Islamophobia, but it certainly doesn't help. I can't say much about British politics, I know Corbyn is treated like a radical communist by the media, I know May has a hard on for censorship and seems like Thatcher lite from an outsiders perspective, UKIP barely exists, Nigel steps down as leader every fifteen minutes. Just an all around shit show.

Does Corbyn have a path to victory? What are his views on foreign policy exactly that has the conservatives shitting the bed?
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 04, '17, 1:04 pm

Corbyn didn't have a path to victory until the election started. Now it seems like the Tories are doing everything in their power to lose. Unfortunately Corbyn's been nailed pretty hard this week because he's non-committal when it comes to launching nuclear weapons ... as he should be in my mind ... and these attacks are allowing the Tories to slap the "weak and ineffectual" tag on him again, which he'd just about shaken off. Frankly, he only had an outside chance anyway, but it seems unlikely he can win without going into a coalition with the Lim Dems and SNP at this point ... and Labour have ruled out doing that multiple times.

This is part of the statement that got the right wing media here in a tizzy;

We will also change what we do abroad. Many experts, including professionals in our intelligence and security services have pointed to the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries, such as Libya, and terrorism here at home.

That assessment in no way reduces the guilt of those who attack our children. Those terrorists will forever be reviled and implacably held to account for their actions.

But an informed understanding of the causes of terrorism is an essential part of an effective response that will protect the security of our people, that fights rather than fuels terrorism.

Protecting this country requires us to be both strong against terrorism and strong against the causes of terrorism. The blame is with the terrorists, but if we are to protect our people we must be honest about what threatens our security.


And of course he's right. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan, removing Saddam and killing bin Laden created the power vacuum that allowed for ISIS to rise. Being allied with America, and bombing the middle east for the better part of two decades, killing thousands of people, both terrorists and innocent civilians, radicalised people against the West. Of course selling arms to the Saudi's, which they use to attack Yemen, then providing Yemen with aid, is completely backwards.

If the Conservatives were smart, they wouldn't attack Corbyn for these things in the press, they'd keep their mouth shut. Cause if Corbyn is elected, Labour are going to do the exact same thing regardless, because like it or not, Saudi Arabia is an ally and its an important part of maintaining that relationship.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 04, '17, 1:32 pm

On a brighter note though, this is hilarious.

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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 04, '17, 4:13 pm

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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Daz » Jun 04, '17, 4:20 pm

There you go. In a nutshell why I'm voting for Corbyn.
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby Circled Square » Jun 04, '17, 4:25 pm

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tfw trump is a saudi shill and corbyn challenges the Saudi terror machine
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Re: Terror incidents in London

Postby AkydefGoldberg » Jun 05, '17, 9:37 am

Sunday: Theresa May says no campaigning until the evening after the attacks the night before, giving a first part of a speech discussing Saturday's events. Second half, having confirmed no campaigning, she goes on to discuss political aspects. Later on Sunday, when the campaigning restarted, Conservaties slam Corbyn for politicising for bringing into public the shit May doesn't want like preventing reports being published, police cuts etc..

Corbyn is much more aggressive in his comments than before, especially on May and her time as Home Secretary cutting the police and intelligence agencies. Work they could have on the ground that may - may not have, admittedly - but MAY have prevented these attacks this year.
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