Cash raised for cop who killed Michael Brown surpasses financial support raised for Brown's family

[Everlong]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /14495459/

This actually makes me kind of sick.

[Str8Shooter]

That's your country Tim, enough rednecks for ya?

[PorkChop]

Why exactly are people raising money for the policeman?

From what I've read, it was completely unnecessary to shoot Brown. I've heard that the KKK offered to help raise money for him as Brown was black (no kidding) but why are others doing the same?

[DBSoT]

That's your country Tim, enough rednecks for ya?

Oh Boy! Another person lumping all of us together as if we all share the same opinion as a bunch of vocal assholes. I am happy that the rest of the world is here to tell us what going on in the US. I wouldn't know how horrible of a country we all are otherwise.

[Everlong]

Why exactly are people raising money for the policeman?

The short answer is they're ignorant, misguided morons.

The longer answer would that it seems to be that they're sympathizing with the difficulties he's gone through after having his name revealed to the public. Difficulties that could have been completely avoided had he not shot an unarmed man several times, but you know. There's also been a massive smear campaign against Brown after his death to bring to light issues he had with the law in the past... issues that are completely irrelevant to this case, because again, he was unarmed and from what witnesses were saying, did nothing wrong other than walk in the middle of the street.

[Daz]

That's your country Tim, enough rednecks for ya?

Oh Boy! Another person lumping all of us together as if we all share the same opinion as a bunch of vocal assholes. I am happy that the rest of the world is here to tell us what going on in the US. I wouldn't know how horrible of a country we all are otherwise.

Someone has to Police America whilst America is busy policing the world I guess.

[Everlong]

Someone has to Police America whilst America is busy policing the world I guess.

To be fair, the US is really in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation when it comes to its status as "world police." So many people bitch and say, "how can the US just stand by and let this happen" when things go wrong in foreign nations, but there's also an uproar every time the US gets involved. No matter what we do, people are furious.

[Str8Shooter]

That's your country Tim, enough rednecks for ya?

Oh Boy! Another person lumping all of us together as if we all share the same opinion as a bunch of vocal assholes. I am happy that the rest of the world is here to tell us what going on in the US. I wouldn't know how horrible of a country we all are otherwise.

I'm not lumping all of you together, but clearly if enough people came together to raise more money than the poor kid who lost his life, there was enough people willing to part with their cash to help a murderer who seemingly to this point anyway, shot and killed an unarmed person for no apparent reason.

[BSM]

Does anybody really know what happened here? I'm asking because there seem to be a lot of conflicting reports.

The initial reports from Dorian Johnson (the guy with Brown when he was shot) was that the officer pulled alongside of Brown, reached through the window of his patrol car, and tried to choke Brown. After Brown was able to escape, the officer reportedly shot him in the back as he ran, then finished him off execution style. These initial reports of "White Officer kills unarmed, innocent black man" of course led to the riots and protests.

Later, surveillance footage from a nearby convenience store appeared to show Brown (or someone believed to be Brown) stealing some cigars and being aggressive towards the store clerk. There are also reports of Johnson later admitting to the police that he and Brown had partook in a robbery earlier that day.

There are also reports that Johnson later changed his story and said that Brown attacked the officer before the shooting, which would match the officer's story.

The officer's side of the story was that he had responded to a 911 call from the store about the robbery and noticed Brown and Johnson walking down the street after, believing them to match the description of the suspects in the robbery. As he approached the pair to question them, Brown allegedly attacked him and tried to takes his gun. The officer then shot him in self-defense.

It's really hard to say what really happened, as there are so many conflicting reports and there's no way to really know which of the reports are truthful, and which are not. It doesn't help that the police department is currently refusing to release the incident report on the shooting.

As for bringing up Brown's past run-ins with the law, I don't know what has been brought up other than the store robbery. Johnson's credibility has been questioned, however, as he has been charged with filing a false police report in the past(even though it was something minor, as he apparently gave police a false name after being accused of stealing someone's mail.)

[Kirbi]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

One of the things that police are trained and paid to do, is to interact effectively with those suspected of crimes. Wilson was a clear failure at his job at best, and a racist murderer at worst. He is also not even nearly getting the brunt of the press about this, despite having killed someone - the discussion by those who condemn the killing has focused much more on the entire local police, and the atmosphere in Ferguson generally. I'm not sure what help people think Wilson needs; from where I sit, he's gotten off light so far.

Focus on Brown's apparent crime beforehand is irrelevant to the Ferguson protests. Does anyone really believe that if a couple of white kids had done the same thing, that one of them would've been shot and killed?

[BSM]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

That's easy to say if you've never been in a situation like that. Sure, me or you would say it would be common sense to shoot the guy in the leg or arm to stop the attack, but I'd imagine its pretty hard to think straight if you are fearing for your life. If you believe someone's trying to kill you, your thought process probably turns into one of self-preservation. If you think the guy is trying to kill you, its very possible that the only thought going through your head is to keep shooting until he stops charging.

Focus on Brown's apparent crime beforehand is irrelevant to the Ferguson protests.

I wasn't trying to relate the robbery to the protests. If it came across that way, I apologize I was just trying to show that, perhaps, Brown wasn't the innocent child, the media was/is making him out to be.

Does anyone really believe that if a couple of white kids had done the same thing, that one of them would've been shot and killed?

http://fox13now.com/2014/08/11/breaking ... olice-say/

This happened a few days after the Ferguson shooting, but didn't get much, if any national news coverage. Looks to be a similar situation, with an unarmed teen being shot by an overly aggressive cop, but with the races reversed. So I would say, yes, its certainly in the realm of possibility for something like this to happen if they happened to be white instead of black.

[Westcoastvibes]

This is one of those news headlines that is going to split the world in half forever. For some of you that don't know the details surfacing because the media is only reporting what they need to for ratings I will bullet them

-cop shoots unarmed teen 6 times
-eye witness reports vary from person to person about details but all of them say the teen was unarmed
-cop reports drastically different details compared to witness statements
-medical reports from cop after shooting and video footage surface that start to collaborate with cops statement
-massive media smear campaign launched to discredit cop and police department in general.


Short description -
Cop claims that teen was verbally aggressive when questioned, teen then reaches into open window of cop car and starts to repeatedly assault cop and attempted to remove the cops firearm (cop suffers fractured orbital bone and various tissue damage outlined in medical reports). Cop is able to exit car while teen is fleeing, draws gun and orders teen to stop, teen stops and puts hands in air as ordered but turns around and makes comment along the lines of "what are you gonna do, shoot an unarmed man?" Then charges the cop, teen does not stop charging until 6th shot is fired hitting him in the head and killing him.

Witness reports (second suspect reports change from day to day so I will focus on others)
Couple people have surfaced saying that the cop pulled up alongside the teens, grabbed one by the arm threw the window of the car and tried to pull the teen into the car threw the drivers window, the teen got loose and ran, cop draws gun and orders teen to stop and put hands in air. Reports say teen did as requested, turned around to face cop and was shot 5 times before the cop decided to give him the 6th and final shot "execution style" to the head.

Special attention should be focused on the key eye witness (besides the second suspect) was on a 2nd floor apartment balcony to the passenger side and rear of the cop car so any details that happened on the drivers side of the car was obscured from the vantage point by the car itself, plus the witness had a relationship with the teen so details could be a bit skewed because the witness knew the teen on a first name basis prior to this.


Long story short, this is going to end up being another O.J. Simpson type of case where people are gonna side with the accused and others are gonna side with the victim because the media does not report unbiased any more when it comes to major story lines where race is an issue. Take it as you will and choose the side you want to support, my personal thought on it, the cops story sounds more legit than the witness reports because of two things. One, he does have injuries consistent with being assaulted threw the car window and two, what cop would shoot a unarmed teen 5 times and then give the coup De grace if he did not feel his life was in immediate danger.

[Kirbi]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

That's easy to say if you've never been in a situation like that. Sure, me or you would say it would be common sense to shoot the guy in the leg or arm to stop the attack, but I'd imagine its pretty hard to think straight if you are fearing for your life. If you believe someone's trying to kill you, your thought process probably turns into one of self-preservation. If you think the guy is trying to kill you, its very possible that the only thought going through your head is to keep shooting until he stops charging.

The main point I'm making here though, is that a police officer should be better able to handle themselves in this kind of situation than a regular person. They should be trained specifically for it; if your propensity is to react that way, then maybe you need more training. And if you're not trained or suited to wield a gun, then you shouldn't carry one.

Focus on Brown's apparent crime beforehand is irrelevant to the Ferguson protests.

I wasn't trying to relate the robbery to the protests. If it came across that way, I apologize I was just trying to show that, perhaps, Brown wasn't the innocent child, the media was/is making him out to be.

Does anyone really believe that if a couple of white kids had done the same thing, that one of them would've been shot and killed?

http://fox13now.com/2014/08/11/breaking ... olice-say/

This happened a few days after the Ferguson shooting, but didn't get much, if any national news coverage. Looks to be a similar situation, with an unarmed teen being shot by an overly aggressive cop, but with the races reversed. So I would say, yes, its certainly in the realm of possibility for something like this to happen if they happened to be white instead of black.

Fair enough. Although you could still argue that it might not happen the same way in Ferguson, which seems rife with racial tensions regardless.

I still don't think Wilson deserves fundraising efforts, though. If he needs funds to secure his safety or that of his family, it should be provided through the management who mishandled their response to this incident to begin with.

[BSM]

The main point I'm making here though, is that a police officer should be better able to handle themselves in this kind of situation than a regular person. They should be trained specifically for it; if your propensity is to react that way, then maybe you need more training. And if you're not trained or suited to wield a gun, then you shouldn't carry one.

This probably comes down to personal opinions, but I'm not sure there is any amount of training that can prepare a person for something like this, assuming this happened like the officer said it did. You can tell or teach someone how they should react to certain situations, but until that person is put in that situation for real, there's no way of telling how said person is going to react. I feel this to be even more true in a life or death situation, where you have a split-second to decide which actions to take, and for many people the training is going to go out the window as the basic human instinct to survive kicks in. Then again, maybe I'm not giving enough credit to law enforcement or their training procedures.

I still don't think Wilson deserves fundraising efforts, though. If he needs funds to secure his safety or that of his family, it should be provided through the management who mishandled their response to this incident to begin with.

I can agree with this, as I'm not entirely sure what they are raising money for.

I also think the media has caused a lot more problems than they have solved in this situation. Sure they helped get this story national and world attention, but there's so much out there its hard to separate fact from fiction regarding this case. The media saw that a white cop shot a black man and jumped all over it because, unfortunately, racism equals ratings for the media. They seem to have all their basis covered, as their have been reports popping up that the grand jury is mostly white. These reports are just more ammo for those who are convinced this case is solely based on racism. If the officer is found to be guilty, then he's a racist murderer. If no charges are brought against him, then it'll be because of the unfairly white grand jury.

[Westcoastvibes]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

That's easy to say if you've never been in a situation like that. Sure, me or you would say it would be common sense to shoot the guy in the leg or arm to stop the attack, but I'd imagine its pretty hard to think straight if you are fearing for your life. If you believe someone's trying to kill you, your thought process probably turns into one of self-preservation. If you think the guy is trying to kill you, its very possible that the only thought going through your head is to keep shooting until he stops charging.

The main point I'm making here though, is that a police officer should be better able to handle themselves in this kind of situation than a regular person. They should be trained specifically for it; if your propensity is to react that way, then maybe you need more training. And if you're not trained or suited to wield a gun, then you shouldn't carry one.

This probably comes down to personal opinions, but I'm not sure there is any amount of training that can prepare a person for something like this, assuming this happened like the officer said it did. You can tell or teach someone how they should react to certain situations, but until that person is put in that situation for real, there's no way of telling how said person is going to react. I feel this to be even more true in a life or death situation, where you have a split-second to decide which actions to take, and for many people the training is going to go out the window as the basic human instinct to survive kicks in. Then again, maybe I'm not giving enough credit to law enforcement or their training procedures.

I think both of you are missing the point about his training. A police officer is methodically trained to only use their firearm if the threat of life or severe personal injury is immanent to the cop or another person. they are also trained that their firearm is a last resort and should only be used when lethal force is necessary.

their is not a single cop in the united states that is trained to use their firearm in such a manor as to incapacitate the attacker, they are trained that if they feel that they must discharge their weapon, they will do so lethal force. they are not trained to shoot someone in the leg or arm, they are trained to make effective torso and head shots.

now, if you can step back and look at his side (true or not) he claims that he was assaulted by brown as brown attempted to remove the officers firearm. somehow the situation changed and there was enough distance between the officer and brown that the officer was able to draw his firearm and start to relay commands to brown. brown then charged the officer in a aggressive manor, because of the previous assault on the officer from brown and because the officer was alone and out numbered he felt that his life and safety was in jeopardy so he made the conscious decision to use lethal force. just because a person is unarmed does not mean they cant kill or seriously injure you.

another part to consider is that one statement from a resident in the area says that the resident heard 2 gun shots, a short pause of one or two seconds at most and then 4 more shots. thats when he looked outside and seen the body of brown on the ground and the cop.
if you think about this statement, it says to me that the officer fired two shots at brown (witch is pretty standard according to a police officer friend of mine who also schooled me on standard firearms training for law enforcement) then fired 4 additional shots after the first two failed to stop browns charge towards the officer.

in a nut shell, the officers side sounds fairly standard and fore the most part within the rules for when a cop can use deadly force. the problem is that he is being labeled as a liar and that he killed brown in cold blood for no reason. its a he said - she said situation that favors both sides. could the officer resolved the situation without blood, most likely, is the race issue being over hyped, most likely, will we ever know the truth, not likely.

[Chewy]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

One of the things that police are trained and paid to do, is to interact effectively with those suspected of crimes. Wilson was a clear failure at his job at best, and a racist murderer at worst. He is also not even nearly getting the brunt of the press about this, despite having killed someone - the discussion by those who condemn the killing has focused much more on the entire local police, and the atmosphere in Ferguson generally. I'm not sure what help people think Wilson needs; from where I sit, he's gotten off light so far.

Focus on Brown's apparent crime beforehand is irrelevant to the Ferguson protests. Does anyone really believe that if a couple of white kids had done the same thing, that one of them would've been shot and killed?

The first part is inaccurate, a police officer is trained to shoot centre of seen mass as muscle memory. The reason is that in a high stress or life threatening event you need to react instinctively. Each shot however needs to be justified.

[Kirbi]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

*Trimmed*

The first part is inaccurate, a police officer is trained to shoot centre of seen mass as muscle memory. The reason is that in a high stress or life threatening event you need to react instinctively. Each shot however needs to be justified.

The choice to use a firearm in the first place should also be justified. The officer had no reason to believe that Brown was armed. Why wasn't he in a position to use his taser?

And yes, I realise that that can also be fatal in certain circumstances; but it is not designed to kill, it's designed to incapacitate.

There may very well be a reasonable explanation for him not using one - but it should be explained. The police department's lack of candor has seriously exacerbated the situation in Ferguson. They suck at keeping the peace.

And I still think six times is excessive, when every shot has hit. If that's his instinct, it needs to be looked at.

[Westcoastvibes]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

*Trimmed*

The first part is inaccurate, a police officer is trained to shoot centre of seen mass as muscle memory. The reason is that in a high stress or life threatening event you need to react instinctively. Each shot however needs to be justified.

The choice to use a firearm in the first place should also be justified. The officer had no reason to believe that Brown was armed. Why wasn't he in a position to use his taser?

And yes, I realise that that can also be fatal in certain circumstances; but it is not designed to kill, it's designed to incapacitate.

There may very well be a reasonable explanation for him not using one - but it should be explained. The police department's lack of candor has seriously exacerbated the situation in Ferguson. They suck at keeping the peace.

And I still think six times is excessive, when every shot has hit. If that's his instinct, it needs to be looked at.

Your first part about the taser, I completely agree that one being used would have had a far better outcome. I have not seen anything on this subject but I do have an assumption, it was said that the police force just recently was able to afford dash and body cameras, so recently that they have not had time to test functionality or install them. If they were just able to afford dash cams that other agencies have had for over a decade then it would be a fair assumption to think maybe the force have not issued officers tasers because of financial reasons. Again, nothing has been said about this so it is purely an assumption.

On the number of shots, it's not uncommon for officers to fire multiple shots. They are trained to fire in a 2 or 3 shot burst first the same as military, if the first burst is not effective then more are necessary. I know for sure if I fired 2 shots into someone and they kept coming I would empty that magazine into them and probably kick them a couple times as well to be sure. When it comes to a situation when a cop needs to discharge his weapon at another human you have to remember that every situation is different with a plethora of variables that have to be considered.

Last thing, anyone that is taking sides against the police officer on this case for the sole reason of brown being unarmed needs to understand that brown (or any other person) does not need a weapon to be considered a threat capable of delivering deadly force to another person. Once again I am not saying it's true or false but, the cop saying he sustained considerable injury including a broken eye socket when brown allegedly assaulted him threw the car window would most likely put the cop in a position to feel his life was most certainly in danger if brown did charge towards him in a aggressive manor.

[Chewy]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

*Trimmed*

The first part is inaccurate, a police officer is trained to shoot centre of seen mass as muscle memory. The reason is that in a high stress or life threatening event you need to react instinctively. Each shot however needs to be justified.

The choice to use a firearm in the first place should also be justified. The officer had no reason to believe that Brown was armed. Why wasn't he in a position to use his taser?

And yes, I realise that that can also be fatal in certain circumstances; but it is not designed to kill, it's designed to incapacitate.

There may very well be a reasonable explanation for him not using one - but it should be explained. The police department's lack of candor has seriously exacerbated the situation in Ferguson. They suck at keeping the peace.

And I still think six times is excessive, when every shot has hit. If that's his instinct, it needs to be looked at.

I wasn't commenting on anything other than how a Police Officer is trained to shoot. I make no inferences about the lawfulness of the shooting.

[Kirbi]

There don't appear to be conflicting reports about the amount of times that Brown was shot though, and a trained police officer should never feel endangered enough to shoot an unarmed teenager six times.

*Trimmed*

The first part is inaccurate, a police officer is trained to shoot centre of seen mass as muscle memory. The reason is that in a high stress or life threatening event you need to react instinctively. Each shot however needs to be justified.

The choice to use a firearm in the first place should also be justified. The officer had no reason to believe that Brown was armed. Why wasn't he in a position to use his taser?

And yes, I realise that that can also be fatal in certain circumstances; but it is not designed to kill, it's designed to incapacitate.

There may very well be a reasonable explanation for him not using one - but it should be explained. The police department's lack of candor has seriously exacerbated the situation in Ferguson. They suck at keeping the peace.

And I still think six times is excessive, when every shot has hit. If that's his instinct, it needs to be looked at.

I wasn't commenting on anything other than how a Police Officer is trained to shoot. I make no inferences about the lawfulness of the shooting.

Ah, I just didn't realise that that was the case, on account of how there's a little more nuance to the training over here.

(I say this having undergone some of the training, observed more, and proofed massive strategy documents on the rest.)