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I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby SKS » May 06, '15, 7:52 pm

I don't think my views were offensive, but I apologize if anyone was hurt by them. Again, I don't know what it's like to be a minority so my opinion is obviously different due to my experiences. I am aware that people are put at a disadvantage. I can see how my views on racism and equality are controversial, but that's just my view point and I felt I would express them. I am very grateful for my situation in a nice neighborhood and family, but to me there is a difference between privilege and being lucky that I would rather not get into because I'm afraid the conversation topic is never ending. That Morgan Freeman interview pretty much sums up my view on the matter so I'll leave it at that.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Messiah » May 06, '15, 7:54 pm

It's a shame Circled Square said what he did. It truly was moronic and ban-worthy. Even if I thought he was the most ignorant person I have ever come across on the Internet (which is saying something), he put in a lot of effort in his debates. I really do wonder how he can believe a lot of the stuff he was saying though and he was very hypocritical and contradicting.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Twister » May 07, '15, 4:48 am

Goodness, shit went down when I went to bed last night.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby EmperorWu » May 07, '15, 5:47 am

Twister wrote:Goodness, shit went down when I went to bed last night.

No kidding.

I, along with at least Tim and maybe others, was perfectly OK with all the stuff he has said since registering. Not that my opinion on that matters. Even though I rarely agreed with SC, I was always of the thought that he should be free to post anything he wanted as long as it wasn't direct personal attacks. I know some people took a few swings at him, and I don't blame them for getting heated. I just want to thank Tim for standing up to not ban him before his personal comment, even though other mods wanted too. That would have been the wrong decision in my opinion. I'm sure some people might have wanted him gone the day he joined up. However I'm grateful that we can discuss our views openly without fear of being punished. The fact is that if this was WWE-Club most of us would be long banned for being honest.

Also thanks to Kein and SKS among others for sharing their opinions. Just because many of us might not agree with you doesn't mean we don't want you to express your thoughts and opinions. I hope you will always feel welcome too, I know I will. The fact is we need that balance in different opinions or else what's the point of even being on a board? However we can all try our best not to be assholes about it, or else we may go the way of SC. :P
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby SKS » May 07, '15, 8:26 am

I just want to make another post here as I feel my previous comments may have expressed the wrong feelings.

I think it is due to my experiences as a child and young adult that I am a bit "desensitized" to the idea of white privilege. I think, due to not experiencing any real favoritism in my life, that it is a good thing, because in my eyes and through my experiences, we are all equal. I felt that I was judged just like anyone else, on my character and my actions rather than my skin color. Again, I was thankful to go to such a diverse high school and was exposed to many different cultures. Because of that I don't really consider myself "white", but a melting pot of different traditions and interests. I would say I'm not a stereotypical white person, but that is up for interpretation.

When I was younger, I felt scared walking home from grammar school at times. There were the "gangster" (XXXL clothes, loud, rude) kids that hung out by the store my friends and I would go to. I was called numerous derogatory names because I wasn't the same race as them (what I assumed). I felt that if I was black they would accept me rather than make fun of me, so it was an upsetting experience. I didn't feel that I was at any advantage.

In high school, what I previously mentioned, the scholarship/financial aid problem. As mentioned, numerous friends of mine who were minorities gained financial aid and "diversity" scholarships and even though my grades were higher, I did not, despite living with a single parent. To me, it felt like discrimination towards me. I understand that there are "quotas" to make in terms of diversity of schools and jobs, but at the time I don't think I was being ignorant to say I was at a disadvantage due to my skin color.

Having a racist/homophobic father did not help as I was exposed to negative views towards those that weren't white or straight ("traditional). I have not talked to him in years, though, thankfully. However I would not say that I am racist, but I would say I am desensitized to the idea of white privilege because through my experiences I felt I was never at an advantage over anyone else. Living in a diverse neighborhood and going to a diverse high school I personally felt that minorities had an advantage over me. Again, through MY experiences. Perhaps my experiences were one of a kind. It is ignorant if I were to say that globally, no one is at an advantage over anyone else. That is not what I meant by my previous posts, so I apologize if it sounded like that. I was just going by my personal life experiences.

I completely understand that there are struggles for any specific race, gender, sexuality, and it upsets me that there is still discrimination in the year 2015. I am a huge advocate for equal rights, especially because the vast majority of my friends are considered minorities, and my uncle is gay. To see the shit on the news that occurs, people getting treated differently just due to their aesthetic features and not their character, very much pisses me off.

In terms of ridding the world of inequality, I'm not sure how to do that. My view was that we can move away from the specific race centric ideas, such as black history month, and focus on the whole human race. I can see that it is a "pipe dream" of sorts, and it is not as easy or simplified as I present it to be. I can see how that could be ignorant, of course, but I don't mean for it to be. I think if you can ignore (no "ignorant" pun intended) the hatred, it will eventually go away. That is what racists and homophobes and whatever, don't want. They want it to be the subject of the news. They want people to keep talking about it, because that's what keeps the discrimination alive, in my opinion. Fads fade out. I understand that discrimination has gone on for centuries and may never go away, but I hope that one day there is no such thing as "insert race here" privilege, and that we are all judged equally as human beings.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Kein » May 07, '15, 7:05 pm

I had a long reply I was working on to Messiah after he took the time to reply to my original post but I got so burned out reading everything from everyone I scrapped the whole thing. Ill just read it and write it again right here as I go because I don't think I was totally misunderstood but I had a conversation with James, Hanley!, and SKS in the chatbox the other day which seemed to be kind of important on my view of things. It was a little bit semantics but also just clearer understanding of stuff too. I think.

Anyways Messiah:

I am not going to defend myself on the skin thing, we both know it's retarded, and it's a purely visual thing to me. I already said I know it's not true and I don't avoid handshakes, I don't feel dirty after hand shakes, it's just a stupid thing that has a weird instinctual perception. Almost like if you smell freshly made food that smells terrible and assume it smells bad it must taste bad but then you try it and find out its not bad at all.

I will admit I didn't attempt to go talk to black people in high school that much, but I also didn't talk to anyone. I didn't treat them differently because they were black I treated everyone indifferently with avoidance. I didn't get along with kids in high school I got along with the teachers. I went and got my shit done and walked out the doors. I understand people can be loud, hell when I play video games I am loud, but when I am in public places, filled with others, I don't yell to my friend across the room beyond louder than necessary next to the ear of the person next to me. I go over to them and say what I need to say. If someone doesn't have the common courtesy to say sorry about shouting to their friend through my ear I don't think I want to know them. Your right, it isn't anything blacks did, its everything the black kids I observed/interacted (however brief) with that made me not want to interact with those black kids specifically. They just happened to be black, but pinning this all on me is a bit silly in my opinion. I didn't hear black kids are loud, I observed the them being loud. I know not all black people are loud, everyone is an individual, but is black people being loud my stereotype or is it a common stereotype people besides me have seen?

I don't know where you grew up so I can only speak for myself, as I said in my original post we don't have gangs, we don't have organized crime in my area. It seems silly to others I am sure, but a lot of kids here like to act hard. They like to listen to the gangster rap, they like to wear bandanas, say nigga, wear the bling-bling jewelry and cuss every other word because they wanna be badass. So don't tell me the stereotypes I observe aren't based off of experience, I know what I see and for you to peg me as assuming these over asking if this is what I grew up with was kind of jumping the gun. As I have said before, I know there are "black people who act white" who are fine individuals who I would get along with. I just never happen to come across them and get to know them, cause ya know, my co-worker is a cool black guy.

And by the way racist people are ignorant. I am racist and ignorant on this topic. They go hand in hand in my opinion, a racist person has to be ignorant to believe what they do, but an ignorant person can just be dumb, but not necessarily racist. I am both for this topic, so don't call me just ignorant.

I am glad you noticed I said stereotypical black kid in that last quote, because it's really important to identify that. We all have an image of what a stereotypical black kid acts like (maybe not but I feel like it seems that way), just like we all probably have a image of what a stereotypical asian kid may act like as well (maybe good academically, asian guys are mommas boys, tight asian pussy, small dicks, whatev). I find it actually hard to believe you would go up to any person and not have ANY assumptions on how they might act based on their culture, attire, posture, hygiene, alertness, etc. These visual queues we see are all part of our observations to decipher and understand a person. Just like if I see a fatass walking down the street with his ass crack hanging out of his pants, stained clothes and dirt smudged on his hands, yes, I am going to assume that is the kind of person I do not want to interact with based on visual queues. Does it make me an assumptious person? Sure, he could have been mugged and lost his belt, and was fighting in the dirt so his clothes is stained and he has dirt on his hands. But to blame me for the lack of interaction based on what I see is pretty directly faulting me when I think it's something everyone everywhere can't help but fall guilty of.

So to answer your real question about my past experiences with the "stereotypical black kid" I would have to say, they are generally loud, blare the music out of the cars ridiculously loud, play a lot of basketball, wear super saggy pants and oversized shirts du-rags and bandanas, big necklaces/watches, don't give a fuck who see's what they do if they are making a scene, ask me for money to get a bus ride home, but they do seem to have fun, and that's something I didn't really do so that's cool. Keep in mind these ARE my experiences and observations of the ones I saw, the ones obviously that stood out most. It also didn't help they congregated together en mass, much like the fob asians did at lunch that consumed two whole tables and were very unwelcoming to anyone else that wasn't asian. I hated those asians too. So since I hate fobby asians I am racist too if I assume an asian I approach is fobby. Even though I know there are individual asians that are perfectly welcoming of everyone else as well...? Hmm...

Seriously though do you guys all not have stereotypical views on any culture? Our cultures are different, no stereotypes? Even if, like me, you know everyone is an individual person?
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby HFX » May 09, '15, 10:07 pm

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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Messiah » May 12, '15, 11:15 pm

I rattled my brain to come up with a long post in response to that, but there isn't much of a reason to. It boils down to this:

If a black person fits your stereotype, he is acting black and re-affirms your opinion of the race.
If a black person doesn't fit your stereotype of how a black person is to act, he is acting white.

There is a difference between stereotyping an individual and stereotyping an entire race. Do we all stereotype to an extent? Absolutely. If I see a black person wearing baggy jeans to the point where his underwear is showing, I probably won't have a high opinion about him initially. However, the same applies if I were to see a Caucasian wear the same thing. You don't take it on a case-by-case approach. All you see is the skin color and nothing else. You stereotype, and thus, generalize an entire race on an extremely small sample not based off interaction but observation. You saw what you saw, congratulations. But that is not enough to judge a human being much less an entire race.

You want to know what kind of music I listened to today?



Granted, that doesn't classify as "Gangster Rap" (and on that subject, I'm not sure how long you have been out of High School but I strongly doubt you were hearing black people frequently listening to that genre - that goes back to your lack of interaction), but you get the gist. Now, I don't wear a lot of "bling-bling jewelry" (no idea why this would be an issue, though). Can't say I was ever too big on that kind of stuff personally. But I swear a shit-ton - hell, I do it on here in the chatbox during football games. I say the word "nigga" a lot, although I've always found it funny how far more hesitant I am to say it than others, not that it bothers me or anything. But let's say I was in your neighborhood. I'd probably be blasting Migos or hell, maybe you would catch me listening to Bobby Shmurda. I play my music pretty fucking loud, so you'd definitely hear it. Maybe you'd hear me trying to rap to it, so you would hear a lot of curses and use of the 'N' word. So, based off your observations, I am your typical black man, right?

Except I watch professional wrestling. When I'm not hanging out with my friends, I spend my time on internet forums or playing video games. As a matter of fact... I sound kind of like you. Y'know, same interests and everything.

Now out of the approximately 45 million African-Americans in the United States, I am either a rare exception to the rule (possibility: 0% as I have and know of plenty of black friends/people like me... well, maybe aside from the internet forums thing) or I am right in saying that your perception of black people is more on you than anything else (possibility: 99.5%).

So you love video games. You love wrestling. You spend your time on an internet forum. We have similar interests. However, because of what you observed, you wouldn't have approached me or thought that. Which is all fine and dandy. There is no issue with that because let's be honest - we all have probably avoided someone because of what we observed or even heard. But it proves my point. Of those black people you observed (however brief, as you put it), there were probably some that shared your interests. Some that were genuinely good people. So without interacting with them, yes I'm going to say that your "experiences" don't have much substance to them. It isn't until you get to know a person that you really begin to know them and I'm going to apply that here.

But even if you got to know them, even if they were just like me, why would it matter? Because in your eyes, they would simply be acting white. I almost wonder what you think of me and who I am.

You get my point? I'm sorry if me saying it's all on you offends you, but it's true. You have never gotten to know a black person (from what you have said) outside of your co-worker (which is a must), who you say acts white. You have never given a black person a chance. Again, I don't really care about that. We all decide who to interact based off our observations, whether it is their looks, actions, etc. However, when you have made minimal (in your case, none) effort to interact with someone, then it puts in you in a position where you shouldn't generalize or stereotype the race. Or if you are going to, then it is all on you and your pre-conceived notion on how a black person should act.

Which, by the way, I know for a fact not all black people you seem to have observed were like how you described. I've been in low-income, mid-income, and high-income neighborhoods and schools and you see plenty of different people of all kinds of races. You just weren't looking hard enough, or simply assumed that the black people in your school that weren't like the real black people were merely acting white.

I won't even lie though. Reading the rest of your post, I really do question these experiences of yours. I mean, "oversized du-rags and bandannas"? I mean I don't know how long you have been out of school, but I'm like pretty sure this is not some in-style thing anywhere anymore. I mean did you REALLY see a lot of black people wearing that? How long ago was this if you don't mind me asking?

ask me for money to get a bus ride home


This did get a chuckle out of me though. That you actually included it as one of the stereotypes was even funnier.

don't give a fuck who see's what they do if they are making a scene


That is how you should live life fam.

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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Messiah » May 12, '15, 11:32 pm

For whatever it is worth, I am not denying that there are common stereotypes based on how black people (on average compared to Caucasians, Asians, Hispanics, etc) act and that there are some (read: not all) that are actually true. I would be ignorant to deny it. It applies to all races. However, it should not be used for generalization, it should not be used to say something like "black person acting white", and it should not be used to advocate racism, especially when you have never interacted with a certain race and are basing it off such a small sample size in a specific location. Maybe others disagree, but I personally feel that you are in no position to use your limited experiences as a basis to claim what the black stereotype is. It is either what you hear about black people in which you are coming up with the stereotypes (goes back to what I'm saying about it being on you rather than actual experience) or how you grew up and what you were led to believe about blacks.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Kein » May 13, '15, 10:39 pm

I think my posts might have come off more racist than I mean to sound. I understand I have said stereotypical black person and I was mostly emphasizing it because everyone has a different view of what a stereotypical (insert race here) type of person acts like. When I say someone is acting white, I should have been more specific, because it's a terrible way to say it. I should have said they are acting more white compared to what my view of the stereotypical black person acts like. Cause it's not like all white people are saints right? Again, on stereotypes it's all foggy because I feel like you believe I am much much more actively hating black people than I feel I do now so my writing must be conveying it more harshly and pushy than I suspect.

The "bling bling jewelry" and I forgot a comma after oversized shirts, I've never seen someone wear an oversized du-rag or bandana; you said you didn't see what was wrong with these and I agree with you, as I said just now I must be coming off more hostile than I mean, because there is nothing wrong with dressing this way, I was just saying my past experiences and as you like to point out more observation than anything else about the black kids I was around. That section of my post wasn't all bad things that bothered me, I was just trying to reply to your previous post. The asking for money thing also, wasn't a punch at what a stereotypcal black person is like, again I was just trying to reply to your post about my interactions and observations during my school days. This was around 1998-2004 btw since you asked.

I am still not sure why you haven't said anything about me acknowledging everyone is an individual. I was trying to say in my last post you are not a wildly rare exception to the pool and I know that. While I may be racist and have pre-concieved assumptions about a race, I still approach each interaction as objectively as I can. You keep saying, I keep re-affriming my stereotype, but I have actually gotten a lot better about my racism towards blacks since I got out of school. Cause ya know, people grow up, I grew up, a lot of the people I thought were (again) "stereotypical black people" grew up, and we're all contributing members of society. I also want to say here my personality type is self-depreciating and inherently hostile towards myself, so I tend to be pretty hard on myself. Before all this post started, I did say "I don't like black people" but I also posted saying "I was joking but serious. It's kind of like when you do something stupid... ...but are laughing with everyone as you say it too"

I know you only almost wondered, but I'll just say I actually like you a lot. You seem like a real swell guy, level headed and even after your first post I thought to myself "I'd actually like to meet this guy" because you seem real cool.

I think the fact someone doesn't actually interact or experience a certain thing, gives them more space in their head to assume, stereotype, believe nonsense, etc. I know I wasn't looking hard enough back then, I also said the ones I saw, congregated in groups and were easily noticed as oppose to everyone else who is black. I tried to get that point across when I said I also didn't like the same kinds of asians that were easy to pick out because they also congregated together en mass. It's up to you to believe or not believe the experiences I said though. If you don't that's a shame because I am not really a liar. That's about all I can affirm on the matter. I won't try to make you believe me.

I actually don't like wrestling that much, I watched it as a kid, and was invited here by a friend to help the activity levels of PubTalk. I just find myself coming here once in a while cause some of you guys are genuinely funny people.

Messiah wrote:
don't give a fuck who see's what they do if they are making a scene


That is how you should live life fam.


I wish I could.
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