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I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Hanley! » May 06, '15, 4:32 pm

Daz wrote:Fuck Kanye! We're taking this thread on another detour folks.


Because he's black or because his music is terrible?

Don't mind me, I'm just need to pour this fuel. Hope there's no fires around ....
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Everlong » May 06, '15, 4:32 pm

Circled Square wrote:blacks commit a high amount of crime compared to the size of their population. I'm sorry.


And you still have yet to answer the question I posed to you pages back, the simple question about why you think that is.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Daz » May 06, '15, 4:34 pm

Hanley! wrote:
Daz wrote:Fuck Kanye! We're taking this thread on another detour folks.


Because he's black or because his music is terrible?

Don't mind me, I'm just need to pour this fuel. Hope there's no fires around ....


Both?
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Str8Shooter » May 06, '15, 4:34 pm

How come we can't get 10 pages of discussion on any other part of the board in normal threads? :(
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Circled Square » May 06, '15, 4:35 pm

Bro, you've really got to look in the mirror and learn to love yourself. Cause I can feel the amount of self hatred you have for yourself just by reading your posts. Once you've done that, learn to show empathy and compassion towards these black communities and try to understand why they feel the way that they do. Try to understand the circumstances that landed them in the position they're in. After that, do research on how our own government neglects these communities. Do some research on how they're constantly stereotyped everyday in the media.

I love myself. I made it in the world without being a degenerate burden on society. Which is why I want blacks to have that standard for themselves - I didn't beat the world or nothing, but I vote, pay taxes, and support myself. Lots of other blacks, don't. I can't love that. I'll never love that. I do appreciate the rap that empowers us, but that isn't the rap that's been pushed to the moon and back.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Everlong » May 06, '15, 4:36 pm

Str8Shooter wrote:How come we can't get 10 pages of discussion on any other part of the board in normal threads? :(


I dunno, maybe if I call New Day a bunch of obnoxious niggers I'll get a ton of people agreeing with me and saying that as a white person it's right that I should find them to be annoying.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby SKS » May 06, '15, 4:39 pm

Str8Shooter wrote:How come we can't get 10 pages of discussion on any other part of the board in normal threads? :(


Because you suck at making topics

swerve

bang

:moocow

I don't see any problem with this thread honestly. It's a sensitive topic and obviously people have differing viewpoints. It's good to look at situations from both ways. It's been interesting for me to read everyone's thoughts even if I don't agree with some, and if people don't agree with me. A forum is for discussion, anyway. I think sometimes people are far too quick to just disregard opinions if they find them dumb, ignorant, racist, etc.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Circled Square » May 06, '15, 4:40 pm

Everlong wrote:
Str8Shooter wrote:How come we can't get 10 pages of discussion on any other part of the board in normal threads? :(


I dunno, maybe if I call New Day a bunch of obnoxious niggers I'll get a ton of people agreeing with me and saying that as a white person it's right that I should find them to be annoying.

Don't most people here agree with you or am I missing the joke?
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby The Legend » May 06, '15, 4:42 pm

Circled Square wrote:
Bro, you've really got to look in the mirror and learn to love yourself. Cause I can feel the amount of self hatred you have for yourself just by reading your posts. Once you've done that, learn to show empathy and compassion towards these black communities and try to understand why they feel the way that they do. Try to understand the circumstances that landed them in the position they're in. After that, do research on how our own government neglects these communities. Do some research on how they're constantly stereotyped everyday in the media.

I love myself. I made it in the world without being a degenerate burden on society. Which is why I want blacks to have that standard for themselves - I didn't beat the world or nothing, but I vote, pay taxes, and support myself. Lots of other blacks, don't. I can't love that. I'll never love that. I do appreciate the rap that empowers us, but that isn't the rap that's been pushed to the moon and back.


That's great. You are very fortunate and lucky that you have worked hard and gotten great opportunities out of that and made the most of the opportunity. Not everyone has all those opportunities no matter how hard you work. The fact of the matter is in this country especially there are more people than there are opportunities. That's where your far right winged, self-centered, greedy and egotistical view of the world falls apart. Thanks.

And for the record that fact has nothing to do about race, that problem exists for all races.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Daz » May 06, '15, 4:44 pm

The Legend wrote:
Circled Square wrote:
Bro, you've really got to look in the mirror and learn to love yourself. Cause I can feel the amount of self hatred you have for yourself just by reading your posts. Once you've done that, learn to show empathy and compassion towards these black communities and try to understand why they feel the way that they do. Try to understand the circumstances that landed them in the position they're in. After that, do research on how our own government neglects these communities. Do some research on how they're constantly stereotyped everyday in the media.

I love myself. I made it in the world without being a degenerate burden on society. Which is why I want blacks to have that standard for themselves - I didn't beat the world or nothing, but I vote, pay taxes, and support myself. Lots of other blacks, don't. I can't love that. I'll never love that. I do appreciate the rap that empowers us, but that isn't the rap that's been pushed to the moon and back.


That's great. You are very fortunate and lucky that you have worked hard and gotten great opportunities out of that and made the most of the opportunity. Not everyone has all those opportunities no matter how hard you work. The fact of the matter is in this country especially there are more people than there are opportunities. That's where your far right winged, self-centered, greedy and egotistical view of the world falls apart. Thanks.

And for the record that fact has nothing to do about race, that problem exists for all races.


I will give you all the rep for this when I can.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Circled Square » May 06, '15, 4:48 pm

The Legend wrote:That's great. You are very fortunate and lucky that you have worked hard and gotten great opportunities out of that and made the most of the opportunity. Not everyone has all those opportunities no matter how hard you work. The fact of the matter is in this country especially there are more people than there are opportunities. That's where your far right winged, self-centered, greedy and egotistical view of the world falls apart. Thanks.

I didn't have jack shit. Jack fucking shit. No money saved up for me. I earned it all dang flabbit! So why do we sit here and act as if these opportunities don't exist just because people are so stupid they can't get beyond self pitty? And I know I'm coming off as someone who feels better than others, and that's because in the community I grew up, compared to the people I was with, yeah, I am better. Most of them are either dead or in jail. It's a sad reality, but we've been playing the victim card for so long now it's almost like that Vaas quote.

Do you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result. I know there's a joke about the way I post in there somewhere tho haha.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Str8Shooter » May 06, '15, 5:06 pm

Circled Square has been banned for making a questionable comment about Tim and his fiancee in the chatbox.

We wish him the best in all his future endeavors.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby The Legend » May 06, '15, 5:06 pm

Circled Square wrote:
The Legend wrote:That's great. You are very fortunate and lucky that you have worked hard and gotten great opportunities out of that and made the most of the opportunity. Not everyone has all those opportunities no matter how hard you work. The fact of the matter is in this country especially there are more people than there are opportunities. That's where your far right winged, self-centered, greedy and egotistical view of the world falls apart. Thanks.

I didn't have jack shit. Jack fucking shit. No money saved up for me. I earned it all dang flabbit! So why do we sit here and act as if these opportunities don't exist just because people are so stupid they can't get beyond self pitty? And I know I'm coming off as someone who feels better than others, and that's because in the community I grew up, compared to the people I was with, yeah, I am better. Most of them are either dead or in jail. It's a sad reality, but we've been playing the victim card for so long now it's almost like that Vaas quote.

Do you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result. I know there's a joke about the way I post in there somewhere tho haha.


You are missing my point. I notice this about most conservatives I encounter. They all have this identical mindset of well my life managed to work out for me because I worked hard and that's just the end of it. If somebody else's life doesn't work out it's purely because they are lazy or they make bad choices or this or that. That's horse shit. While hard work is certainly a huge portion of it. Being lucky in any number of ways certainly plays a huge role in the people that make it and those that can't on their own. And I'm not into some sociopathic Darwinian Adolph Hitler bull shit of just let those that "can't make it on their own" die off.

For the record, this is as far as I'm willing to let our conversation on this subject go because, I have deeply passionate feelings on this subject from people I know in my personal life and I know that if I allow you to bait me into taking this argument any further it ends in me being the first person Tim has ever banned from this site. And well, I kinda like it here. Although some days are better than others.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Hanley! » May 06, '15, 5:12 pm

^^ You missed the window on being the first person Tim bans from the site, John. ;)

Also for fuck sake, stop posting things that make so much sense until I get my rep back. :P
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby The Legend » May 06, '15, 5:20 pm

Hanley! wrote:^^ You missed the window on being the first person Tim bans from the site, John. ;)

Also for fuck sake, stop posting things that make so much sense until I get my rep back. :P


Yeah, me and Brett posted that at pretty much exactly the same time. Also, sorry Steve. I'll try to slow down my genius. :P
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby SlightlyJames » May 06, '15, 5:24 pm

The most horseshit chat of all time is going down right now yall should stop by
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Matteo » May 06, '15, 6:26 pm

Everlong wrote:^But politics are extremely interwoven with this issue. It's the political structure we have in place that prevents any meaningful change from ever occurring.


Yes, absolutely.

Racism is an extremely contentious issue, but in order to get to the fundamental roots of it, we must defamiliarise the familiar. I have not come across one post in this thread that actually examines the dynamics of this prodigiously intricate phenoneom from a sociological standpoint. Why does racism even exist? Why do we have a propensity to even discuss race at all? Why don't we discuss the very tenets and fabric of our social order instead as a means to understand why certain races act a certain way?

As most sociologists would agree, racism is an issue deeply embedded within our ostensibly normal social structures. African American males, simply put, are victims of systematic and institutional oppression. I openly challenge anyone to disagree with this. The thing is, most of us are not even aware of this. That we are, indeed, active agents of oppression. This includes me, you and just about everybody else who is white. This is the most salient point I want to propound. We've constructed a society that is intrinsically disadvantageous, discriminatory and repressive towards certain races and even religions. The very functions of our institutions, the same institutions that comprise social order and cohesion as a whole, are constructed in a way that benefit certain groups and discriminate others.

Their behaviours, ideologies, subcultures and principles all derive from their 'place' in the society. I think a good, more accessible way to analyse racism as a social construction is to use Durkheim's theory of Structural Functionalism. Believe me, it's not that difficult to understand. As Durkheim's theory postulates, in order to have socially cohesive and stable society, we need hierarchy. This means everybody needs to have their role in society - from top to bottom, from free to oppressed, from the elite to the masses. It just so happens that countries like America and Australia have a system that is structurally draconian to black people. We've then created institutions and social order based on this very intrinsic philosophical belief that models this ideology - or rather - approach to 'life'.

This is precisely why some argue that racism, as we know it, can not be eradicated or ameliorated considerably within our existing social structures and institutions. Why? Because they're inherently oppressive and discriminatory. In fact, it's so inconspicuous in its workings, very few of us can even actively acknowledge it. Honestly, there is so much talk about racism in contemporary Western political discourse. But a lot of it is simplistic, and, to some extent, anti-intellectual. If we truly want to get to the heart of what racism is, we must go deeper, collectively, as people. This thread has many good arguments and some really overly-simplified, ill-founded and baseless arguments. I just think we all need to step back and see this from a viewpoint that is not clouded with our own biases.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Daz » May 06, '15, 7:23 pm

Matteo wrote: I just think we all need to step back and see this from a viewpoint that is not clouded with our own biases.


I think that's inherently the problem though. We can be as empathetic and understanding as we can be, and still never truly know what it's like to be in someone else shoes. Our viewpoints are always gonna be muddied by our own thought process. We are individuals and we think the way we think, and that's informed by genetics, up bringing, nature, nurture and surrounding society. That's always gonna be at the forefront, especially when it comes to issues such as race.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Matteo » May 06, '15, 7:32 pm

Daz wrote:
Matteo wrote: I just think we all need to step back and see this from a viewpoint that is not clouded with our own biases.


I think that's inherently the problem though. We can be as empathetic and understanding as we can be, and still never truly know what it's like to be in someone else shoes. Our viewpoints are always gonna be muddied by our own thought process. We are individuals and we think the way we think, and that's informed by genetics, up bringing, nature, nurture and surrounding society. That's always gonna be at the forefront, especially when it comes to issues such as race.


Indeed, it's truly impossible to be completely impartial and objective in our analysis, but we need to be more intellectually active and distant here. Let's steer away from our personal experiences, our own ideologies, our own tenets, our own vision and let's try to collectively ameliorate and eradicate this disconcerting issue together. There's a whole world of academic disciplines out there (theoretical models and frameworks, ideas and directions, sociology and political philosophy) that we can apply. Let's stop focusing on our individual opinions on racism and start getting to the fundamental roots of why it occurs. I'm espousing a method of discourse that has been at the core of philosophical studies for centuries here. We need to stop deliberating on this extremely intricate and contentious issue from such a shallow and subjective viewpoint. It's like we've become conditioned in discourse to discern racism from a particular lens that just unnecessarily fuels dissension and enmity instead of working towards models and frameworks that can actually make this world a better place.
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Re: I know way more racist people than I'd have expected

Postby Everlong » May 06, '15, 7:34 pm

Just going to interject real quick to update on the situation from earlier tonight.

We were having discussions in the mod forum about whether we should ban Circled Square or not. I decided I wasn't going to do it, because I felt while he seemed to get off on pushing people's buttons, and he's said a lot of really ignorant and offensive things, he'd yet to really cross the line where I knew for sure I wanted him gone.

Not two minutes later he said this in the shoutbox:

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So I banned him. He made a new account, and sent me a short apology saying,

"Wife comment was fucked up man. Hope you can forgive me and let me come back one day."

I banned his new account too, though I have no doubt he'll be back again soon under a different proxy.

He's welcome to get in touch with me in a couple months and convince me that he's not going to be such a dick the next time around, but right now there's really no reason for me to think he's interested at all in toning down his act. So for now, consider him gone.

In regard to the rest of this thread:

Regardless of what it might seem when I get worked up, I have no problem with people posting their actual opinions on shit like this. That being said, don't be surprised when people call your opinion out for being dumb if you say something really controversial. It's one thing to say someone has a stupid opinion for believing, like, Chris Jericho to be better than Bret Hart, for example. There's no place for that sort of opinion attacking. But when people display clear ignorance, racism or insensitivity to cultural groups, I've got no problem with myself or anyone else calling them out on it.

There are only three rules on this site: don't be a dick, be more than 13 years old and no hatespeech. Circled Square broke the first and the third pretty regularly, and that's why he's gone.

I've got no problems with debate, and even especially heated debate. I've greatly disagreed with things that people like Kein and SKS have said in this thread, but they never actually crossed any lines in my eyes, as much as I vehemently disagree with their views they were at least having an open and honest dialogue. I can't say so much for the other guy, and that's why he's gone, and it'll be a couple months or so before I consider letting him back, assuming he's still lurking/re-registering at that point.

If anybody has any questions about my decision making process or general guidelines for this sort of shit, please feel free to ask, I want to be as transparent as possible. This is the first time I've ever banned anyone, and it wasn't a decision I made lightly.
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