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Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Aug 09, '14, 10:52 am

PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?

Why are you being a dick? I provided context, lyrics, and praise that supported my point in the previous post.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Viazon » Aug 09, '14, 10:59 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?

Why are you being a dick? I provided context, lyrics, and praise that supported my point in the previous post.


You can provide as much evidence you want to whatever it is you are trying to prove. It won't change the fact that Kanwe West is an arrogant prick. There may be some people who think he is genuinely nice and maybe he is sometimes. But you really can't read some of the stuff he says about himself and not think he is a complete dickhead.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby PorkChop » Aug 09, '14, 11:01 am

Hanley! wrote:
PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?


At this point he's trying to punish us, I think.

Where is our fearless leader Tim when you need him? Let him have the last word and sentence this gargantuan beast of a thread to death. :lol

08/08/2014 shall now be known as Danielson Day, and we shall honour it next year by posting irrelevant figures and statistics in every thread.

"I really feel WWE aren't using Ryback properly. There is 1,525,000,000 miles of telephone wire in the U.S."
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Daz » Aug 09, '14, 11:03 am

PorkChop wrote:
Hanley! wrote:
PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?


At this point he's trying to punish us, I think.

Where is our fearless leader Tim when you need him? Let him have the last word and sentence this gargantuan beast of a thread to death. :lol

08/08/2014 shall now be known as Danielson Day, and we shall honour it next year by posting irrelevant figures and statistics in every thread.

"I really feel WWE aren't using Ryback properly. There is 1,525,000,000 miles of telephone wire in the U.S."


THE BIG GUY PLAYS BY RYBACK RULES. FEED HIM MORE.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Aug 09, '14, 11:03 am

PorkChop wrote:
Hanley! wrote:
PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?


At this point he's trying to punish us, I think.

Where is our fearless leader Tim when you need him? Let him have the last word and sentence this gargantuan beast of a thread to death. :lol

08/08/2014 shall now be known as Danielson Day, and we shall honour it next year by posting irrelevant figures and statistics in every thread.

"I really feel WWE aren't using Ryback properly. There is 1,525,000,000 miles of telephone wire in the U.S."

Resorting to personal insults. That's really mature man.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby PorkChop » Aug 09, '14, 11:07 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:Resorting to personal insults. That's really mature man.

Before I'd written that post you'd called me a dick. What was that about insults mate?
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Daz » Aug 09, '14, 11:08 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
PorkChop wrote:
Hanley! wrote:
PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?


At this point he's trying to punish us, I think.

Where is our fearless leader Tim when you need him? Let him have the last word and sentence this gargantuan beast of a thread to death. :lol

08/08/2014 shall now be known as Danielson Day, and we shall honour it next year by posting irrelevant figures and statistics in every thread.

"I really feel WWE aren't using Ryback properly. There is 1,525,000,000 miles of telephone wire in the U.S."

Resorting to personal insults. That's really mature man.


To be fair, the other day you insinuated he couldn't possibly understand where you were coming from with your argument because he's white. Taking a little dig at you is a reasonable response I reckon.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Kirbi » Aug 09, '14, 11:10 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
Kirbi wrote:
But they do not agree with him saying that exploitation of artists and of consumers is the same as slavery.


Yes they do, lol. The song lyrics of J Cole pretty much send the same message that "New Slaves" did. If they didn't agree with the message of New Slaves and thought it was despicable why do they keep calling it powerful? Why do they keep putting it as the best song of 2013 on their list? Hip hop is literally driven by message and lyrics. Those are the two most important elements so if you don't like the lyrics or message, they wouldn't praise it so highly.


Why the hell wouldn't they? Thinking a piece of music is great is in no way the same thing as approving of its message. It doesn't even have to involve much thought about the message at all.

And even enjoyment of the lyrics can involve many factors other than the ultimate message in them. One might enjoy the rhythm, the vocal performance, the intensity, the tone, the word choice, the harmony (whether singing or in poetic sensibility). Your assertion here is absurdly simplistic.

None of the quotes you've presented involve people explicitly stating that they agree with West's theory of 'new slavery'. I'm not going to assume that someone agrees with such a horrendous assertion unless I have actual proof of it.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Daz » Aug 09, '14, 11:13 am

Kirbi wrote:
DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
Kirbi wrote:
But they do not agree with him saying that exploitation of artists and of consumers is the same as slavery.


Yes they do, lol. The song lyrics of J Cole pretty much send the same message that "New Slaves" did. If they didn't agree with the message of New Slaves and thought it was despicable why do they keep calling it powerful? Why do they keep putting it as the best song of 2013 on their list? Hip hop is literally driven by message and lyrics. Those are the two most important elements so if you don't like the lyrics or message, they wouldn't praise it so highly.


Why the hell wouldn't they? Thinking a piece of music is great is in no way the same thing as approving of its message. It doesn't even have to involve much thought about the message at all.

And even enjoyment of the lyrics can involve many factors other than the ultimate message in them. One might enjoy the rhythm, the vocal performance, the intensity, the tone, the word choice, the harmony (whether singing or in poetic sensibility). Your assertion here is absurdly simplistic.

None of the quotes you've presented involve people explicitly stating that they agree with West's theory of 'new slavery. I'm not going to assume that someone agrees with such a horrendous assertion unless I have actual proof of it.


And by proof, I assume she means a direct quote, preferably in video form, of one of the aforementioned artists saying something along the lines of "Kanye West's theory of New Slavery is absolutely correct" as opposed to a lyrical quote from someone else entirely, album sales figures, another Kanye quote, or approval from the "black community" at large.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Aug 09, '14, 11:15 am

Daz wrote:
DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
PorkChop wrote:
Hanley! wrote:
PorkChop wrote:Does anyone else get the impression that Danielson doesn't completely believe in what he's saying?


At this point he's trying to punish us, I think.

Where is our fearless leader Tim when you need him? Let him have the last word and sentence this gargantuan beast of a thread to death. :lol

08/08/2014 shall now be known as Danielson Day, and we shall honour it next year by posting irrelevant figures and statistics in every thread.

"I really feel WWE aren't using Ryback properly. There is 1,525,000,000 miles of telephone wire in the U.S."

Resorting to personal insults. That's really mature man.


To be fair, the other day you insinuated he couldn't possibly understand where you were coming from with your argument because he's white. Taking a little dig at you is a reasonable response I reckon.

No I didn't. I was pointing out the irony of PorkChop telling me to look up and research slavery when he 1, got the date wrong of slavery (1960), 2, coming from a family that has experienced slavery and 3, taking African American studies courses in College.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Daz » Aug 09, '14, 11:18 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:No I didn't. I was pointing out the irony of PorkChop telling me to look up and research slavery when he 1, got the date wrong of slavery (1960), 2, coming from a family that has experienced slavery and 3, taking African American studies courses in College.


Hmmm

DanielsonTHAGOAT - August 8th, 2014, 5:42 pm IP whois for 98.169.4.79 Edit Delete
its just ironic that white people that aren't from the United States are trying to tell me about slavery.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby PorkChop » Aug 09, '14, 11:19 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:I was pointing out the irony of PorkChop telling me to look up and research slavery when he 1, got the date wrong of slavery (1960)

I've told you three times now that this was a typo, I meant the 1860's. If you look closely, the 9 and the 8 on your keyboard are rather close.

Also, don't deny you played the race card. You did, without shame, and it made you look like a dick.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby The Legend » Aug 09, '14, 11:20 am

I long for the day I log on to this site and this topic isn't the #1 topic on the board.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby DanielsonTHAGOAT » Aug 09, '14, 11:22 am

PorkChop wrote:
DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:I was pointing out the irony of PorkChop telling me to look up and research slavery when he 1, got the date wrong of slavery (1960)

I've told you three times now that this was a typo, I meant the 1860's. If you look closely, the 9 and the 8 on your keyboard are rather close.

Also, don't deny you played the race card. You did, without shame, and it made you look like a dick.

No, it wasn't a typo because I asked several times and you didn't respond. Then until I posted the screen cap, you claimed it was a typo.

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There were no slaves in America in the 1960s but I need to "look" up slavery.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby PorkChop » Aug 09, '14, 11:25 am

DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:
PorkChop wrote:
DanielsonTHAGOAT wrote:I was pointing out the irony of PorkChop telling me to look up and research slavery when he 1, got the date wrong of slavery (1960)

I've told you three times now that this was a typo, I meant the 1860's. If you look closely, the 9 and the 8 on your keyboard are rather close.

Also, don't deny you played the race card. You did, without shame, and it made you look like a dick.

No, it wasn't a typo because I asked several times and you didn't respond. Then until I posted the screen cap, you claimed it was a typo.

Image

There were no slaves in America in the 1960s but I need to "look" up slavery.

It was a typo and the screencap proves it. I said 19 instead of 18 it once, by accident, and you're holding onto that moment for dear life.

A major part of my dissertation was a discussion about Malcolm X. As you probably know, he talks a lot about slavery in 19th century America. This featured heavily in my dissertation. I know when it happened.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby AkydefGoldberg » Aug 09, '14, 3:55 pm

I've not even read through the nine pages (think I got up to four) but I think is probably a PTF Classic.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby prophet » Aug 09, '14, 4:15 pm

I'm going to go ahead and lock this now. We've gone off topic and at this point you're all pretty much going round in circles so it's probably best to put this to bed now and move on.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby PorkChop » Aug 09, '14, 4:19 pm

prophet wrote:I'm going to go ahead and lock this now. We've gone off topic and at this point you're all pretty much going round in circles so it's probably best to put this to bed now and move on.

@Everlong - please still post your reply, despite the thread being locked. People are looking forward to this.
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Re: Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

Postby Everlong » Aug 09, '14, 6:01 pm

Alright. I'm not going to go too in-depth with quoting and responding to individual arguments, because frankly that's been done to death in this thread already. I would however like to make a series of individual points, some of which are reinforcing things that have already been said and some of which are things that have been nagging at me as I've been reading this thread over the last day or two on my phone up north.

The first, and most obvious point: the fact that this man, a multi-multi-millionaire who could live the high life for the rest of his days while never making another dollar, has had the gall to compare paparazzi attention to 1960s civil rights struggles is absurd for several reasons:

1) The struggles of black civil rights activists were about very real, important issues.

2) There's a pretty significant difference in these situations in that the paparazzi badger Kanye because he's a rich and powerful figure with millions of fans who want to know everything about him. 1960s black civil rights activists were discriminated against and abused by people who despised them and, in extreme cases, wanted them dead.

3) The fact that he thinks any of his daily struggles are worth the tiniest fraction of a percent of what those people suffered for is absurdly arrogant.

Now, all of this falls under the level of arrogance we've come to expect from Kanye, so it's not particularly shocking that he would say any of this. Despite Danielson's protests, it's pretty well known that Kanye is a megalomaniac. It's what's made him such a controversial artist. He's one of the most self-absorbed, arrogant people in pop culture.

BUT, for ANYONE, whether it's Kanye or a fan, to come out and compare the struggles that black artists face in the music industry is at best very offensive and at worse a dangerous, extremely concerning way of thinking that shows a complete lack of understanding of history and the trials and tribulations that actual slave suffered.

Like, words can't describe the sheer idiocy of that comparison. I'm not going to pretend to know much about the hip hop industry or the way artists are marketed, but I know enough to know that these are people who have made a CHOICE to enter a field that everyone knows is extremely competitive and will chew up and spit out even some of the more gifted artists out there. If they can't make it in the industry, they at least have a chance to fall back on a nine to five job. And yes, I'm well aware of the poor, underprivileged background that a lot of these artists come from, but consider the experiences of the slaves:

-They were regularly taken forcibly from their mothers as children and sold to other owners so that they would have no family ties to distract them from their work

-They had no rights of any kind, no choices about their life. From birth until death, they were absolutely, utterly fucked unless a miracle situation arrived or they managed an escape.

-They were whipped, beaten, raped or otherwise abused as punishment, for pleasure or occasionally for no reason at all.

It actually infuriates me that anyone would ever make that kind of comparison. Not only does it completely shit on the travesties that these people experienced every single day for their entire lives, but it also does an immense, indescribable disservice to the millions of slaves still in the world today. In fact, there are more slaves today than at any other period in the history of the world. And yet here, we have people bitching about not getting a fair shake in the music industry or having to compromise their artistic integrity and deeming that as slavery.

If you can't see how many shades of fucked up that is, then you have some extremely severe issues relating to your ability to empathize with problems that actually matter.

So, that's my take on this whole issue. The other issue is the way this argument itself has transpired. It's been extremely frustrating to read.

Danielson, I can definitely appreciate your passion on the topic and your willingness to constantly contribute your opinions on here, even if many times they're not popular at all. But you need to seriously reevaluate the way you frame an argument, because it's a disservice to everyone else on this site who has an interest in actual intellectual discourse.

You can't just come into a thread, defend a man's character, then when people provide numerous examples of how obviously douchy and bigheaded he is (and he is, that's an objective fact), decide you want to change the argument to success, influence, record sales, what other artists say about his ability, etc. You start bringing up prison statistics as a way to justify the "slavery in music" comment, which was completely irrelevant, then start shouting at people who point out the complete irrelevance of that point. You say things like, "nobody calls out Noah Gallagher or John Lennon when they acted like douchebags" which is A) irrelevant and B) completely untrue, everyone knows those guys are/were incredibly arrogant and/or asshats. That's what's called a Strawman argument; you project some other, unrelated argument into the conversation and attack it as though anyone has attempted to make that argument, when no one has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

It's frustrating and infuriating, because there's no way to respond against it when you completely change the parameters of an argument as fits your needs so that you can stay on the offensive. Even worse is when you attempt to delegitimize any type of argument made by anyone who isn't black. The whole "white people trying to tell me about racism LOL" bullshit is equally frustrating, makes it harder to take your opinion seriously and doesn't give your points any more validity.

So that's pretty much what was going through my head as I read all of this. I could go back through and respond to individual quotes, but as I said, other people have pretty much taken care of that already and there doesn't really seem to be any point in keeping this beast going anyway. But holy fuck, the ignorance involved with comparing anything as relatively trivial as hip hop industry success to the biggest black mark on this nation's history and one of the most devastating practices still ongoing in the world today is simply staggering, and it absolutely boggles my mind that anyone could be so delusional as to think they're even remotely comparable.
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YOU HEARD IT FROM TAJ FIRST FOLKS
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