Another golden Kanye West quote in the news today

[Viazon]

When did I say Kanye West was like Ian Watkins? I said that Michael Jackson and Lou Reed have several musical accolades, as does Ian Watkins. That's the truth.

Don't twist what I'm saying.

Comparing Ian Watkins to Lou Reed and Michael Jackson is a joke. Lostprophets have never ever reached half the critical acclaim or praise that Michael Jackson and Lou Reed have.

Michael Jackson changed R&B, Pop, and essentially paved the path for all black artist on mainstream channels.

Lou Reed is praised for having one of the most influential bands of all time.

Brining up Ian Watkins was irrelevant.

Not irrelevant, you were using the opinions of people who were 'credible' because they'd won musical accolades, and I used Watkins as an example that you can't do that. He has several musical accolades and his personal opinions are awful.

If you want to talk about irrelevant posts, please read through your posts in this thread again.

Watkins does not have the accolades of a Michael Jackson. That's just ridiculous. Michael Jackson is credible because of his impact in various genres of music. Pop, rock, R&B, hip hop, soul, and funk music. MJ is credible because he responsible for one of the best albums of all time. He is credible because he was the first black artist to be played on MTV when MTV refused to play black artist on their channel.

Ian Watkins has done nothing to help move his culture of music. The comparison is "paper thin" like you say.

I don't think you understand what Porkchop is saying. He never once said that Ian Watkins was on the level as Michael Jackson. He merely tried to state that his opinion isn't the most important in the world just because he is talented.

[PorkChop]

When did I say Watkins was on the level of Michael Jackson? I said that they've both received musical accolades. I've stated this twice now, yet you've twisted it twice.

Christ.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

The media doesn't need to put a slant on comments such as the one that started this thread. It's just a stupid thing to say. They don't need to put any spin on him interrupting an award speech to claim that somebody else should have won, it's just a horrible thing to do. When he hijacks a relief broadcast to throw accusations at the president, the media are going to throw some abuse at him and rightfully so.

So Kanye West's character is defined by one award show and a relief broadcast show which he told the truth about the President of the United States? So you can judge Kanye off of those two events and know everything about him? You said you don't listen to his music so how could you know what messages he puts in his songs for the world?

Then there's all the self-aggrandizing statements that he makes, thinking he's God's gift to music and the world. You can't begin to spin that in a positive way because acting this way is not cool, and it's never received well by the public. And anyone who thinks like that can fuck themselves with a shovel for all I care. If they're that self-centered then why should I give a damn what they think about the rest of the world? Clearly they don't pay enough attention to it.

He does pay attention to the rest of the world, lmao. Diamonds from Sierra Leone was him addressing issues of blood diamonds. That song was a hit record. He has songs talking about consumerism amongst the youth on My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy and that album went on to sell a million copies. He has a whole album that talks about how people should empower themselves and believe in their dreams and that album sold 3 million copies. His character and music is the same. Hip Hop is a genre of authenticity and being true to your lyrics and Kanye's a poster child for that.

That's what makes him God's gift to music, he changed hip hop culture from this violent/gangster thing into thought provoking material. He brought in the art culture into Hip Hop and has advanced music. He also creates music that uplifts people and music that makes people look at the world differently. That is undeniable. I know music is subjective and everything but Kanye West is the equivalent of Floyd Mayweather. Kanye West is the equivalent of Michael Jordan when it comes to music in the last 10 years. So how come no one calls Muhammad Ali a douchebag but Kanye West is? Kanye's earned 21 Grammys in the last 10 years, does that mean anything?

Hip Hop artist are competitive and all adopt a mentality of "being the best". People who nag on Kanye for thinking that don't understand much about the culture at all.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

When did I say Watkins was on the level of Michael Jackson? I said that they've both received musical accolades. I've stated this twice now, yet you've twisted it twice.

Christ.

Do Lostprophets even have any real musical accolades?

[SlightlyJames]

Can you just grasp the concept here that success=/=validity. Adding how much of a hit a record is or how many copies sold or how many accolades a person has does absolutely nothing to make the points you're making legitimate.

It doesn't matter how successful or how talented Kanye is, that has no bearing on how his character should be judged, the facts are that he has an inflated sense of self importance and he's said some extremely arrogant things over the years, competitive culture or not that makes him a bit of a dick.

[Viazon]

The media doesn't need to put a slant on comments such as the one that started this thread. It's just a stupid thing to say. They don't need to put any spin on him interrupting an award speech to claim that somebody else should have won, it's just a horrible thing to do. When he hijacks a relief broadcast to throw accusations at the president, the media are going to throw some abuse at him and rightfully so.

So Kanye West's character is defined by one award show and a relief broadcast show which he told the truth about the President of the United States? So you can judge Kanye off of those two events and know everything about him? You said you don't listen to his music so how could you know what messages he puts in his songs for the world?

So instead we should define his character based on that one story you posted from reddit where he had a nice chat with a fan?

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

The media doesn't need to put a slant on comments such as the one that started this thread. It's just a stupid thing to say. They don't need to put any spin on him interrupting an award speech to claim that somebody else should have won, it's just a horrible thing to do. When he hijacks a relief broadcast to throw accusations at the president, the media are going to throw some abuse at him and rightfully so.

So Kanye West's character is defined by one award show and a relief broadcast show which he told the truth about the President of the United States? So you can judge Kanye off of those two events and know everything about him? You said you don't listen to his music so how could you know what messages he puts in his songs for the world?

So instead we should define his character based on that one story you posted from reddit where he had a nice chat with a fan?

No, but everyone who has met Kanye without a Polaroid camera in their hand have praised Kanye.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

he has an inflated sense of self importance

When he first started producing, people said Kanye would never make it as a producer and he ends up being one of the best producers in Hip Hop before he even picks up a microphone.

Kanye starts rapping, people said Kanye will never make it as a rapper and no one would take him serious. His album went on to get critical acclaim and win Grammys.

If Kanye listened to people saying he has an inflated sense of self importance, he would've never made it as a musician at all.

[SlightlyJames]

he has an inflated sense of self importance

When he first started producing, people said Kanye would never make it as a producer and he ends up being one of the best producers in Hip Hop before he even picks up a microphone.

Kanye starts rapping, people said Kanye will never make it as a rapper and no one would take him serious. His album went on to get critical acclaim and win Grammys.

If Kanye listened to people saying he has an inflated sense of self importance, he would've never made it as a musician at all.

Having confidence in his talent and believing that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread are not the same thing.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

he has an inflated sense of self importance

When he first started producing, people said Kanye would never make it as a producer and he ends up being one of the best producers in Hip Hop before he even picks up a microphone.

Kanye starts rapping, people said Kanye will never make it as a rapper and no one would take him serious. His album went on to get critical acclaim and win Grammys.

If Kanye listened to people saying he has an inflated sense of self importance, he would've never made it as a musician at all.

Having confidence in his talent and believing that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread are not the same thing.

He has always called himself a musical genius and the best artist of the last 10 years. There's nothing wrong with those statements. He will go down as not just one of the most influential people in music but also in art and fashion.

[SlightlyJames]

he has an inflated sense of self importance

When he first started producing, people said Kanye would never make it as a producer and he ends up being one of the best producers in Hip Hop before he even picks up a microphone.

Kanye starts rapping, people said Kanye will never make it as a rapper and no one would take him serious. His album went on to get critical acclaim and win Grammys.

If Kanye listened to people saying he has an inflated sense of self importance, he would've never made it as a musician at all.

Having confidence in his talent and believing that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread are not the same thing.

He has always called himself a musical genius and the best artist of the last 10 years. There's nothing wrong with those statements. He will go down as not just one of the most influential people in music but also in art and fashion.

It's been said before but I'll say it again, art is subjective and nobody is the "best" at creating music. Sales are not an indicator of this before you dredge that up again. It's also been said before that regardless of how talented or successful he is it's extremely arrogant to go around talking about how great you are all the time, no matter how true it is.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

he has an inflated sense of self importance

When he first started producing, people said Kanye would never make it as a producer and he ends up being one of the best producers in Hip Hop before he even picks up a microphone.

Kanye starts rapping, people said Kanye will never make it as a rapper and no one would take him serious. His album went on to get critical acclaim and win Grammys.

If Kanye listened to people saying he has an inflated sense of self importance, he would've never made it as a musician at all.

Having confidence in his talent and believing that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread are not the same thing.

He has always called himself a musical genius and the best artist of the last 10 years. There's nothing wrong with those statements. He will go down as not just one of the most influential people in music but also in art and fashion.

It's been said before but I'll say it again, art is subjective and nobody is the "best" at creating music. Sales are not an indicator of this before you dredge that up again. It's also been said before that regardless of how talented or successful

I hate that idea so much. If art is subjective, so are sports. There's clearly a difference between good music and bad music. There's clearly a difference between good movies and bad movies. I can see how art is subjective if you were to compare something like Pulp Fiction to GoodFellas since those are two great films, two highly praised films, etc.

When people say The Beatles were the most influential band of all time, that's a fact. You can hear their styles being used by other bands.

So when Kanye West says he is the most influential artist to come out in the last 10 years, it's really hard to even debate that because I can list at least 50 artist who've been influenced by him or have heavily borrowed his style.

he is it's extremely arrogant to go around talking about how great you are all the time, no matter how true it is.

Sorry but that's the genre of hip hop. Most the content revolves around witty metaphors and wordplay expressing how great they are.

Plus, I don't see why athletes and someone like Eminem can call himself "Rap God" but when Kanye says he is the best ARTIST, he is wrong.

[Str8Shooter]

This thread is without a shadow of a doubt, a first ballot PTF Hall of Famer.

[SlightlyJames]

You've taken the stance a few times in this thread of "X person says they're great so it's fine if Kanye does it". That's not right, it's not just Kanye, anyone making claims like that about themselves is a grade A plonker. I don't care if that's hip hop culture or any other culture, it's bloody stupid. If Kanye is doing so much to change the genre for the good maybe he should lead by example and be a little humble about the success he's found.

The comparison to athletes isn't exactly valid, unlike with music, a lot of sporting performances can be summarised in a uniform way by statistics making one performance comparable to another. This simply isn't the case with music or any art.

The argument of him having great influence doesn't mean that his music is better, the amount of people who appreciate his music isn't proportionately related to the quality of his music. The majority of people holding the opinion that his music is good doesn't necessarily make it valid. To propose a counter example: The majority of the people in this thread believe that Kanye West is a bell end, you don't. Does that mean we're right because there are more of us?

[Kirbi]

Hip Hop artist are competitive and all adopt a mentality of "being the best". People who nag on Kanye for thinking that don't understand much about the culture at all.

Frankly I think that if they all do it to the extent that he does, then they're all assholes.

You seem to believe that there is justification for his behaviour. I definitely don't think so; and this thread seems to imply that the majority here don't. A lot of your arguments seem based on you simply not getting this.

[Hanley!]

Can you just grasp the concept here that success=/=validity.

It makes sense that he can't grasp that concept, because he's a Kanye West fan.

That's what I've learned about Kanye West from this discussion, more than anything else. He's all for speaking out about the issues, but hypocritically also believes that having the loudest voice validates your opinion and makes it more important than the opinions of others. I just find it a little sad that we now have some actual proof that this personality trait has rubbed off on some of his fans.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

Can you just grasp the concept here that success=/=validity.

It makes sense that he can't grasp that concept, because he's a Kanye West fan.

That's what I've learned about Kanye West from this discussion, more than anything else. He's all for speaking out about the issues, but hypocritically also believes that having the loudest voice validates your opinion and makes it more important than the opinions of others. I just find it a little sad that we now have some actual proof that this personality trait has rubbed off on some of his fans.

Because resorting to insulting members makes you intelligent.

[Hanley!]

Because resorting to insulting members makes you intelligent.

I'm not insulting you. I've deliberately made an effort to not make inflammatory comments in this thread, because I don't like it when these things turn nasty and get shut down. But one of the problems I have with Kanye based on this discussion is that he thinks his opinion deserves to be heard because of how important he is. On some level, he believes that his success validates his opinions.

And succession equating to validity is something you appear to believe on some level also, as you keep quoting how successful he is, how many albums he's sold and so on. Most of the others here don't find this relevant to the discussion, but you keep bringing it up. I don't think his success makes his opinions any more worthwhile.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

You've taken the stance a few times in this thread of "X person says they're great so it's fine if Kanye does it". That's not right, it's not just Kanye, anyone making claims like that about themselves is a grade A plonker. I don't care if that's hip hop culture or any other culture, it's bloody stupid. If Kanye is doing so much to change the genre for the good maybe he should lead by example

He already has changed the genre for good and evolved it. He doesn't need to change his personality and be a fake person.

The comparison to athletes isn't exactly valid, unlike with music, a lot of sporting performances can be summarised in a uniform way by statistics making one performance comparable to another. This simply isn't the case with music or any art.

A lot of stats are skewed to support one's argument when it comes to Sports. If you compared Ronaldo and Messi together, is it beyond reasonable doubt that Messi is better than Ronaldo or vice versa?

Also how come we can't use influence as a measuring stick to judge an artist? Unless your hearing is impaired, you can tell the difference between minor chords and major chords? You can tell the difference between a guitar and a piano?

How about Metacritic ratings as well? Why can''t we use that as a statistic? Look, the art is subjective argument is really paper thin one.

The argument of him having great influence doesn't mean that his music is better, the amount of people who appreciate his music isn't proportionately related to the quality of his music. The majority of people holding the opinion that his music is good doesn't necessarily make it valid.

That really doesn't make sense. So if everyone likes Kanye's music and he releases a critically acclaimed project, those opinions don't reflect on the quality of his music? What are you saying?

To propose a counter example: The majority of the people in this thread believe that Kanye West is a bell end, you don't. Does that mean we're right because there are more of us?

No because if Kanye was really as evil as you make him out to be, he wouldn't be praised like he is.

[Kirbi]

To propose a counter example: The majority of the people in this thread believe that Kanye West is a bell end, you don't. Does that mean we're right because there are more of us?

No because if Kanye was really as evil as you make him out to be, he wouldn't be praised like he is.

Unless the people doing the praising can tell the difference between skill and personality.