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ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

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Who was better?

Ric Flair
14
48%
Hulk Hogan
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52%
 
Total votes : 29

Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Daz » Apr 03, '14, 3:44 pm

Hanley! wrote:^^ Didn't John already do that? The Flair flop, the inevitable being thrown off the turnbuckle. He did very gimmicky, showboating stuff that hurt the psychology of a match.


I just fail to see how the Flair flop and being thrown off the turnuckle is insulting to wrestling. I mean by that token, HBK is insulting to wrestling for doing the turnbuckle flip, the kip up after the forearm. Austin must be an insult to wrestling for flipping the bird before hitting the stunner. Ultimate Warrior must be an insult to wrestling for shaking the rope, Savage for pointing to the sky before dropping the elbow. Anyone who goes to the top rope at all, so on and so forth. Shit like being thrown off the turnbuckle can be part of the psychology of the match, case in point, Wrestlemania 24. If that's your opinion, fair enough, I don't know, I just don't really see where you're coming from on this one.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Messiah » Apr 03, '14, 3:47 pm

I am surprised so many people don't think highly of Flair on the stick. Personally, I don't think there should be any doubt he is one of the greatest of all time in that area of his game. Did he yell and go over-the-top a lot? Yeah but that's Flair. It is what made Flair, Flair.



I guess I can understand why that wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. And I will be to first admit that I think a lot of wrestling fans overrated him. However, I think he is being underrated in this thread.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Daz » Apr 03, '14, 3:49 pm

Messiah wrote:I am surprised so many people don't think highly of Flair on the stick. Personally, I don't think there should be any doubt he is one of the greatest of all time in that area of his game. Did he yell and go over-the-top a lot? Yeah but that's Flair. It is what made Flair, Flair.



I guess I can understand why that wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. And I will be to first admit that I think a lot of wrestling fans overrated him. However, I think he is being underrated in this thread.


I have to agree sir, some of the straight vitriol for Flair blew my hair back a little.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Hanley! » Apr 03, '14, 3:53 pm

Daz wrote:
Hanley! wrote:^^ Didn't John already do that? The Flair flop, the inevitable being thrown off the turnbuckle. He did very gimmicky, showboating stuff that hurt the psychology of a match.


I just fail to see how the Flair flop and being thrown off the turnuckle is insulting to wrestling. I mean by that token, HBK is insulting to wrestling for doing the turnbuckle flip, the kip up after the forearm. Austin must be an insult to wrestling for flipping the bird before hitting the stunner. Ultimate Warrior must be an insult to wrestling for shaking the rope, Savage for pointing to the sky before dropping the elbow. Anyone who goes to the top rope at all, so on and so forth. Shit like being thrown off the turnbuckle can be part of the psychology of the match, case in point, Wrestlemania 24. If that's your opinion, fair enough, I don't know, I just don't really see where you're coming from on this one.


Well as I have stated before, the ridiculous overselling stuff just doesn't do it for me much. I do hate HBK's turnbuckle flip (which is something that Flair does too incidentally, only Flair's looks even worse).

Much like John said already in relation to Hogan's hulking up, most of the other things you listed can at least be explained away. In almost every case, it's just wrestlers showing off or pumping up the crowd while their opponent is stunned. Sure, it's not the smartest tactical move by the wrestler in question, but it doesn't break kayfabe. But when Flair does the flop, it just screams "by the way, this is all bullshit!" It breaks the story.

I don't mind stuff like that a bit either, I'm probably overstating my opinion here. In small doses that kind of thing can be fun. But Flair resorted to it so often that it just soured me on him as a performer.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Daz » Apr 03, '14, 4:01 pm

I'll agree Flair resorted to it a lot during his WWE run, butlet's be honest, he was an old man by that point and all anybody really wanted from Flair anyway was a chop or two and the Figure Four.

I can understand overselling not being your thing, but to call it an insult to wrestling is a bit much in my opinion. Also the Flair Flip isn't entirely unrealistic in fairness. After getting pummeled in the corner usually, he falls flat on his face. I don't know about you but if I took a couple of bodyshots and a blow to to the jaw, I'd probably fall flat on my face as well lol.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby VaderBomb » Apr 03, '14, 4:46 pm

Anything that can be said about the argument of "pro-wrestling wouldn't being where it's at right now if not for Hulk Hogan" as positive thing can also be viewed on the inverse. Vince McMahon ruined a lot of the best things about pro-wrestling with the 80s boom and Hulkamania.

You go back and watch any Mid-Atlantic, Georgia or Florida Championship wrestling and it's way better than post-Hulkamania WWF in every conceivable way, The writing was better. It wasn't cheesy and one-dimensional and legitimately every storyline and feud was wrapped up naturally. The characters were better. Everyone had a stronger hand in creating their persona, they seemed less like cartoons and more like real guys who want to fight each other for respect, honor and glory. The big events were more consistent, with little to no filler. Even the small matches had a good deal of depth. I'll take a Starrcade or an outdoor event from late 70s-early 80s NWA over a late 80s-onward WrestleMania or SummerSlam any day of the week.

On top of those aspects, the matches in those territories were by far and away of higher quality than during and post-Hulkamania WWF. Aside from a few incredible workers like Bret and Hennig who always put on classic matches, the amount of truly great matches from these years in WWF is pretty small comparatively. After Vince bought out these territories, all of the best stuff about pro-wrestling in the 70s-early 80s was gone. Gone was the grittiness. Gone were plain colored short trunks and realistic characters. Gone was the psychology. Gone was the passion. Watch the first couple WrestleManias. Harley Race was wearing a crown and losing in 3 minutes, Dory Funk Jr. was called Hoss, and Hogan main events and wins every fucking time. At least Piper and Steamboat were there, but for fuck's sake! What had they done to professional wrestling?

Flair and Savage weren't even allowed to main event WrestleMania VIII over a very burnt out Hogan and fucking Sid Justice! Even when Hogan went to WCW, his matches and feuds were borderline awful and the company in general seemed to be getting worse. They were forced to turn him heel and WCW started doing better business, but I'd still prefer to watch those old 80s WCW PPVs than any of the early 90s through nWo era stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I obviously adore WWF/E and WCW, but I don't credit Hogan with saving the world or anything. He made wrestling more money, but didn't make it better. He made it worse, wherever he went.





One last thing. I think that aside from his legendary early career, Flair's 00s run in WWE was severely underrated. He put overs tons of guys like MVP, Umaga and Mr. Kennedy and had a decent amount of classic moments and solid matches.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Str8Shooter » Apr 03, '14, 5:02 pm

Hanley! wrote:^^ Didn't John already do that? The Flair flop, the inevitable being thrown off the turnbuckle. He did very gimmicky, showboating stuff that hurt the psychology of a match.


The Flair flop will never stop being hilarious to me. I could be in the worst mental state possible and I'm pretty sure watching videos of the Flair flop would bring a smile to my face.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Chewy » Apr 03, '14, 8:08 pm

They can both go and get ass fucked by Shrek for all I care.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Ace » Apr 04, '14, 10:14 am

I gave this one to Flair. I'm actually surprised that he's losing this one.

Hogan certainly put wrestling on a bigger stage than ever before in the 80s. Hulk Hogan is a household name even for those outside of wrestling & that know nothing about the stuff. He is the definition of hype & was more over than any wrestler to enter the squared circle. Hogan put on awesome matches with the likes of Savage, Andre the Giant & Ultimate Warrior. Hogan's career entered a new generation in the late 90s with WCW and his return to WWE as Hollywood Hogan and he adopted pretty well, winning himself another World Heavyweight title run.

That being said, Flair definitely set the mold for what it means to be decorated & polished as a pro wrestler. He knew that he was the shit & wanted everyone to know it. His flop was ridiculous but I guess he figured it would be entertaining to see him sell a move that way. Like 'haha that wasn't shit... *falls* shit'. The fans certainly ate it up. Beside everyone know the Nature Boy Ric Flaah!

I just feel like Flair definitely has more accolades to his name and was an awesome heel
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Everlong » Apr 04, '14, 2:11 pm

We're in a dead heat right now... 12 votes apiece. Am I going to have to actually vote in this round to decide the winner? :lol
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby SortaCreative » Apr 04, '14, 2:12 pm

Everlong wrote:We're in a dead heat right now... 12 votes apiece. Am I going to have to actually vote in this round to decide the winner? :lol


Vote Flair.

Both have been shit, both are dicks. But Flair was the overall better wrestler.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby prophet » Apr 04, '14, 2:12 pm

Everlong wrote:We're in a dead heat right now... 12 votes apiece. Am I going to have to actually vote in this round to decide the winner? :lol

Only if you vote for Flair, who was better than Hogan.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Everlong » Apr 04, '14, 2:17 pm

SortaCreative wrote:
Everlong wrote:We're in a dead heat right now... 12 votes apiece. Am I going to have to actually vote in this round to decide the winner? :lol


Vote Flair.

Both have been shit, both are dicks. But Flair was the overall better wrestler.


If I have to vote, Flair will be my pick.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby JDD » Apr 04, '14, 2:45 pm

Im voting Hogan. I just like him better. Plus he has one of my favorite themes ever!
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby PorkChop » Apr 04, '14, 2:54 pm

Str8Shooter wrote:
Hanley! wrote:^^ Didn't John already do that? The Flair flop, the inevitable being thrown off the turnbuckle. He did very gimmicky, showboating stuff that hurt the psychology of a match.


The Flair flop will never stop being hilarious to me. I could be in the worst mental state possible and I'm pretty sure watching videos of the Flair flop would bring a smile to my face.

There was a Flair flop in MMA a while back:

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Afterwards it spawned a load of articles claiming that Ric Flair was going to sue :lol
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Everlong » Apr 04, '14, 10:51 pm

I added my vote for Flair earlier this afternoon but it's still tied up. So looks like someone else is gonna have to settle this one.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby VaderBomb » Apr 04, '14, 11:18 pm

If Hogan eliminates Flair in the first round... I'm going to lose my cool. :bubba
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby SortaCreative » Apr 05, '14, 3:00 am

It's 13 all people.

Flair/Hogan so far the most interesting round in this tournament!
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby The Legend » Apr 05, '14, 9:35 am

VaderBomb wrote:If Hogan eliminates Flair in the first round... I'm going to lose my cool. :bubba


I feel the same way if Flair wins at all.
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Re: ROUND ONE: Ric Flair (3) vs. Hulk Hogan (6)

Postby Chewy » Apr 05, '14, 10:17 am

The Legend wrote:
VaderBomb wrote:If Hogan eliminates Flair in the first round... I'm going to lose my cool. :bubba


I feel the same way if Flair wins at all.


It's like picking which brand of salt to add to a big bowl of dicks to eat.
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