What would it take for Vince to make drastic changes?

[Str8Shooter]

So last night's Raw was panned again, featuring a boring show that was even more boring than usual. The main event segment featured Roman Reigns in the ring talking for like 10 minutes (why!?), and him and Sheamus going back and forth. The only thing the crowd cared about was chanting "Tater Tots" after Reigns mentioned them somehow (I forget the context already). Also, yes Reigns really did say "Tater Tots".

The show just is so lifeless. It's like they don't even care to try and make things interesting. The show started with the League of Nations in the ring, they were interrupted by the Wyatt's coming out (intriguing). Of course this potentially new and interesting thing was interrupted by the Dudleyz and Dreamer, who brought out Rhyno! ( ) . Then Reigns and his crew. We then got a clusterfuck 16 man/4 team elimination match, with Reigns pinning Sheamus clean to win.

Then at the end after Sheamus and Reigns brawl, Reigns spears Sheamus through a table and stands tall again. I don't even.

What's it going to take for them to make sweeping changes to the show, either in format, look, booking etc? Because this isn't working.

[Everlong]

His death.

[SortaCreative]

His death.

[Str8Shooter]

This thread has taken a dark turn.

[Viazon]

I tried to think of a response that would have been funny but still have some sort of truth to it. But Tim nailed it. I don't think anything will ever change until he is gone.

[War Daddy]

His death.

[Hanley!]

It will probably take his death. Vince is a rich man now. He doesn't seem to care that his company isn't doing too great. He's doing very well for himself, and he's still the top name in professional wrestling. At this point in his life, that appears to be more than enough for him.

Vince has always been slow to change things. Despite the reactions of the fans, the media, or anyone else. He's only ever implemented radical change when his company has been under threat. Right now the fanbase is shrinking rapidly, but the company is still comfortably the leader of the American wrestling market. Unless the company is under threat again, I don't think he'll ever change anything. And there are no real threats looming, as far as I can see.

The product is so cold and stale right now, it's being panned so consistently by everyone, and they're losing fans so quickly. If he was going to make a change he would have done so already.

We're just fucked, basically.

[The Legend]

I think the biggest problem is they are a hamster stuck on a wheel. They so busily try to put out 8 hours off wrestling per week and rush through it to get it done. Then the week ends and they attack the next week in the same way. They desperately need to think and plan more long term visions, but they are stuck in a rut of flying by the seat of their pants and never have enough time in any given week to make the changes of how they do things that are necessary.

This would be another case to be made for WWE having an off-season to regroup and refocus moving forward.

[Hanley!]

I think the biggest problem is they are a hamster stuck on a wheel. They so busily try to put out 8 hours off wrestling per week and rush through it to get it done. Then the week ends and they attack the next week in the same way. They desperately need to think and plan more long term visions, but they are stuck in a rut of flying by the seat of their pants and never have enough time in any given week to make the changes of how they do things that are necessary.

This would be another case to be made for WWE having an off-season to regroup and refocus moving forward.

They have about 30 writers on staff though, along with a bunch of other people on staff who oversee various aspects of the stories that we see on screen, and undoubtedly have ideas to contribute. They have a lot of hours of wrestling to produce each week, but they should be able to do that comfortably and competently with the staff that they have.

I think it's a control thing. Vince doesn't want to let go of the reigns, and probably tries to sign off on almost everything himself. And maybe him specifically not having any time is the problem. But the company is not taking on an impossible task. Vince McMahon might be though. But if he'd let other people actually do their jobs, 8 hours each week shouldn't be that hard.

[Westcoastvibes]

IMHO, too many writers. I look at the product as a story being told, have you ever been around a group of guys and realized that the story being told is a cluster fuck because they all have to get their own points in? Same concept, you cant make one mans idea come to life with 30 people narrating. There should be 2 or 3 writers per active storyline max, they should be the same group from start to finish and all have the same end game with variables in the journey to the end.

[SortaCreative]

His death.

[SlightlyJames]

Vince doesn't want to let go of the reigns

Little freudian slip there @Hanley!?

[AkydefGoldberg]

Vince doesn't want to let go of the reigns

Little freudian slip there @Hanley!?

Ha, made me chuckle..

[Hanley!]

Vince doesn't want to let go of the reigns

Little freudian slip there @Hanley!?

Deliberate pun actually. Thanks for noticing.

[Messiah]

You know, I have been thinking and well... is there any disagreement that present-day WWE is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most uninteresting period in WWE history?

You can argue there have been periods with worse creative decisions. Periods with worse wrestling. Periods with worse gimmicks. But at least there were decisions other than who wins and loses. At least the matches were different; every match nowadays feels the same and PPV matches are no different than what we get on Raw. At least there were different gimmicks/characters, no matter how poorly received. Not shit happens anymore. 2007 had its flaws, but there was still stuff to get excited about. Hell honestly '07 (other than the Summer of that year) isn't even that bad when you think about it, and I would still take Summer '07 over what we get now. Summer '07 had MVP/Hardy. What does today's WWE have? '

There are no interesting feuds. No interesting wrestlers. Guys like Owens are good, but they don't do shit. There are never any actual segments. I mean yeah there will be some in-ring promos of guys and gals bickering, but that is it. Nothing progressive. Nothing unique or interesting. Seriously Fall/Winter 2015 WWE is the fucking worst, and if it wasn't for NXT, I am pretty sure I would be completely done with wrestling.

It isn't even like NXT is some revolutionary show or anything. They don't do anything special. They just keep it simple, they have unique characters, and they make progress with everything they do. That is all I ask for, it's not a lot. Roman Reigns is a more talented Baron Corbin, so why is it that I find Corbin FAR more entertaining than Reigns? Booking, that is all there is to it. They do an exceptional job showcasing Corbin's strengths, even as a babyface I was more hooked on him (just hated his constant squashes) than current Reigns. Corbin always came across as a complete badass, from the attire to the entrance to the matches. How can they get it so right with Corbin, who isn't all that special, and so wrong with Reigns?

[Hanley!]

The Corbin comparison is pretty perfect. Reigns is better in every way as a performer, and somehow manages to be a less enjoyable on television and as a character. Just shows you the difference between the two shows and the way they book/present their stars.

Then again, it might also be down to the fact that NXT don't treat Corbin like their #1 guy, despite having better options that the fans respond to more. That could be part of it.

[Everlong]

is there any disagreement that present-day WWE is, without a shadow of a doubt, the most uninteresting period in WWE history?

This is 100 percent the truth. Nobody gives a fuck about anything. The characters aren't getting invested in their struggles. The fans can't get invested in this fucking shit writing. The writers/VInce don't give a shit that they're producing the blandest possible television every week.

The WWE could really use a natural screen grabber with the freedom to get his own character across, a Stone Cold Steve Austin type for the new generation, to pull them out of this slump and help usher change in to the company. But the last true original WWE had walked out of the company two years ago, and it's really hard to blame him when you see what it's become.

[SortaCreative]

But the last true original WWE had walked out of the company two years ago, and it's really hard to blame him when you see what it's become.

I'm still so sad about all this.

[Hanley!]

What the show needs is a new show-runner. That's it. Vince McMahon can't do the job anymore. For things to get better he needs to be replaced. We need a new vision. We've been getting the same stuff from him forever, and as he gets older he gets less creative and more complacent, so what we're getting today is crappier, more diluted versions of what he was giving us 20 years ago. And in many cases, we'd probably be bored of this stuff by now even if he was still doing it well.

The show needs a new vision. You can't keep a show going for this long without shaking things up once in a while. Otherwise things get incredibly stale, which is what has happened to the company over the last few years.

I'd love to see Vince step down and give the job to somebody else. Preferably someone new. Stephanie McMahon has had a big part in the creative process over the last 15 years and learned how to book from Vince anyway. That's not enough of a departure. The same basically goes for Triple H, though I do think he has better ideas of the wrestling landscape than Vince in 2015. A lot of people would love to see Paul Heyman booking again, or other names like that, and I guess that could be cool. Heyman was great at certain things back in the day. But what I'd really like to see is someone new at the helm. A genuinely new vision. It'd be great to see people booking in 2016 that weren't booking back in 1996.

There's so many things you can do with wrestling. Lucha Underground proves that you don't have to stick to the same tired formula that we've been seeing forever. I'd love to see the biggest wrestling company in the world actually using some of their vast resources to pursue something new and interesting for a change.

[SortaCreative]

There's so many things you can do with wrestling. Lucha Underground proves that you don't have to stick to the same tired formula that we've been seeing forever. I'd love to see the biggest wrestling company in the world actually using some of their vast resources to pursue something new and interesting for a change.

This is key because Lucha Underground doesn't do anything amazingly new. It focuses on putting on a quality television show with a cohesive narrative thread throughout and compelling characters. That's the difference. WWE isn't a TV show. Lucha Underground is. WWE is this weird faux sport/mixed with entertainment and soap drama but it doesn't do any of that really all that well. NXT shows how the simple format can work.

They need to book their TV show like a TV show. They should drop Smackdown or Superstars and book two episodes a week of a TV show. Not an advertising vehicle or whatever Raw is right now. I also think that this is the time to introduce an off period to WWE. They should run in two blocks. January to May and August to October. Focus on creating each block it's own little narrative block with connections to previous ones (like current champions and previous feuds). it would allow them to book bigger feuds on a larger scale because they would be contained to a certain time period. Things like the summer where HHH took over and everyone revolted is a good example of an event kind of story line.

Right now this ever rolling train of weekly shitty TV is just pointless. Plus the 4 months off would give wrestlers time to heal their bodies. Keep people fresh physically and creatively.