Where does John Cena rank among the all-time greats?

[prophet]

Stole this from another forum, where do you rank John Cena among the all-time greats of the WWE? I'll create a poll to make things clearer but use this thread to specify exactly where you rank him if you want.

[Hanley!]

It depends how you're quantifying 'all-time greats'. Is it about how good they were? How entertaining they were? How heavily they were featured? How much they accomplished?

There's only one answer that I can think of that applies to Cena no matter what your criteria are. Where does Cena rank among the all-time greats? Right above Ultimate Warrior.

[prophet]

It depends how you're quantifying 'all-time greats'. Is it about how good they were? How entertaining they were? How heavily they were featured? How much they accomplished?

I never really thought that through. Just like...in general?

[Hanley!]

Fair enough.

I'm still going to stick with "just above Ultimate Warrior". Because they have a lot in common. They both entertained a lot of kids, and they both achieved a lot in the business. But I don't believe either of them were/are very good. Cena is a bit better and has achieved a bit more, so he's just above Warrior for me. But I could come up with 30 names that I think are greater without too much trouble.

[Everlong]

If we're talking about where I'd place him in terms of talent and overall greatness, he wouldn't even crack my top 20, or even my top 30. He's in the position he is entirely because WWE wanted him to be, despite the fans pushing back for the majority of his career. The WWE was desperate for another name to be the face of their brand after Rock and Austin left, and they nearly had it with Brock Lesnar, but he couldn't handle the schedule and dipped early. So when Lesnar left, they forced the issue with Cena rather than waiting for someone to rise to the top naturally.

It's why they HAVE to accept the current movement that's going on with Daniel Bryan, because he HAS risen naturally and the fans are ready to embrace him. They could have done it with CM Punk as well, but they resisted. Bryan is their chance to make things right after botching it with Punk and letting Lesnar slip through their grasp a decade ago.

[Everlong]

Sorry for the double post, but I should add a disclaimer that I don't think Cena has necessarily been bad during his career. He's been involved in a couple five star matches and has been deserving of main event status for a good chunk of his career, I just don't think he's the kind of talent that you can look back on and say "man, that guy was great."

[KaiserGlider]

He's in the position he is entirely because WWE wanted him to be, despite the fans pushing back for the majority of his career. The WWE was desperate for another name to be the face of their brand after Rock and Austin left, and they nearly had it with Brock Lesnar, but he couldn't handle the schedule and dipped early. So when Lesnar left, they forced the issue with Cena rather than waiting for someone to rise to the top naturally.

Cena did rise naturally to the top though, more or less. Certainly more naturally than Brock. The fans were behind Cena. Look at the reactions during his match with Big Show at Wrestlemania 20. The problem started when WWE started mega-pushing him down our throats after he was drafted to Raw. So while I do think he deserved to get a run with the title, as a character he wasn't good enough to carry the main event for so long, and the fans turned on him.

Cena would probably be somewhere in my 20-30. He's been involved in too many great matches and prominent moments to be any lower. But going off of what Tim said, we won't remember him for being that great of a guy compard to those higher up the list.

[Everlong]

The fans turned on Cena within his first year as being a major main event player. While he had a lot of support early on, it didn't last for long once he'd actually won the top belt.

The WWE was forced to turn Lesnar face less than a year into his time in the WWE because the fans were cheering for him so much.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

I gotta disagree a little bit with you Tim, I'm far from a John Cena advocate but I find it hard to believe that their was 20-30 wrestlers who worked harder than him in the ring. Cena got to where he was because of his work ethic and being a great entertainer from 04-06. The main flaw Cena has is that he has never stepped out the box in his career.

Austin stepped out the box with the 3:16 gimmick, Rocky stepped out when he was given the microphone as a member of the Nation of Domination, and CM Punk stepped out by delivering that worked shoot promo.

Cena also has this thing where he wrestles on the same level of his opponent which is a good thing and bad thing. For example; Cena has had classic matches with Edge, CM Punk, and Daniel Bryan but he has some of the worst matches with Batista, Orton, and HHH.

I think Cena is at least top 10-15 if we're talking about entertainers because he did help put butts into seats.

[Everlong]

I gotta disagree a little bit with you Tim, I'm far from a John Cena advocate but I find it hard to believe that their was 20-30 wrestlers who worked harder than him in the ring.

You could be the hardest working person of all time and still suck. We're talking greatness, not participation awards.

The Rock
Stone Cold
Hulk Hogan
Bruno Sammartino
Undertaker
Bob Backlund
Davey Boy Smith
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Harley Race
Randy Savage
Ricky Steamboat
Ric Flair
Kurt Angle
Sting
Eddie Guerrero
Edge
Triple H
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan
Mick Foley
Rey Mysterio
Andre the Giant
Roddy Piper
Arn Anderson
Jake Roberts
Lou Thesz
Dusty Rhodes
Gorgeous George

I mean just off the top of my head those would be people that I'd take over Cena on an all time scale and I'm almost definitely forgetting a bunch.

[Daz]

It's not a question of talent. He's been on top for over ten years. He's been carrying the company for over ten years. That qualifies him for the top 3 at least, regardless of work rate. And if we're being honest, Cena's work rate should never be questioned. the amount he does for the WWE, regardless of whether you like his character and in ring performance, is absolutely insane.

[Hanley!]

It's not a question of talent. He's been on top for over ten years. He's been carrying the company for over ten years. That qualifies him for the top 3 at least, regardless of work rate. And if we're being honest, Cena's work rate should never be questioned. the amount he does for the WWE, regardless of whether you like his character and in ring performance, is absolutely insane.

So then greatness is just being there? Top three for Cena sounds insane to me.

And work rate shouldn't really be that big a factor. Sure, he works hard. But does that entitle him to a spot in the top 10 of all time if he's not any good? There are certainly actors, musicians and artists out there who put far more work into honing their craft than many of their more famous contemporaries without ever becoming as talented. Maybe that's not fair, but it's the way the world works. These forms of entertainment are consumed and they should be judged by the consumer. Nobody is entitled to succeed just because they tried.

I couldn't even begin to rank him over Hogan, Rock, Austin, Macho Man, Andre, Hart, Michaels, Undertaker, etc. Who cares if he's been there longer than some. That doesn't make a difference when most of that period has not been entertaining and when he's spent most of the period at odds with the fans.

[DanielsonTHAGOAT]

John Cena is the most liked sports athlete on Facebook. Randy Savage has never reached the draw that John Cena has, Jake Roberts never had the draw like Cena, Rey Mysterio cannot draw like Cena, Davey Boy Smith can't draw like Cena either. John Cena has the most important thing you want from a wrestler in a business and that's the ability to put butts into seats.

Are there other PURE wrestlers better than Cena? Yup. Are there other wrestlers who can draw and entertain as well as Cena? Nope. Cena is in a elite class with The Rock, Stone Cold, etc. Cena has been carrying the company and his just been on the end of some of the worst booking in wrestling history.

You can't blame poor booking on Cena. Guys like Stone Cold and The Rock have taken the ball like Cena and have ran with it but I think Cena's ran with the ball longer than Hogan, SCSA, or Rocky ever have which is impressive. Cena is also played a huge part in two eras, the Ruthless Aggression era and PG Era(or Reality Era/Kayfabe 2.0 Era).

The funny thing is we hear mixed reactions for John Cena but how come Cena sells the most out of everyone on the roster? It's clear that Cena is well liked and that his suffered from just terrible booking. We cannot deny the classic matches his also had with JBL, Undertaker, and Brock Lesnar, Edge, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan etc.

Cena is probably the hardest working guy the company's ever seen, hell, the hardest working guy the wrestling business has ever seen.

[Hanley!]

The problem with people talking about Cena's drawing power is that it's difficult to figure out how true it is. Merchandise sales show him as the top selling performer, but he's been put in a position to sell better than others - he's the star that's marketed most towards the kids, and he has far more merchandise than any other performer to try and pull more money from these kids. How many T-shirts has he had over the last 10 years?

But in terms of putting "butts in seats", how can we judge if he has actually done so? If he has, then how come the mouths attached to those butts have been booing him for years now? You can credit him with WWE's current success because he's the face of the company, but most of that success probably isn't down to him. And besides, the company is less popular now than it was when he became their mascot back in 2005.

And when is the last time Cena was presented as the primary draw for Wrestlemania? Because it wasn't recently. His matches with the Rock were sold off the Rock's incredible success, and Undertaker's match has often been put forward as a bigger draw than Cena's. Other years the focus is on celebrities like Donald Trump and Floyd Mayweather. I reckon the last time they 100% trusted John Cena to draw numbers for the biggest show of the year was Wrestlemania 22.

You can't blame poor booking on Cena. Guys like Stone Cold and The Rock have taken the ball like Cena and have ran with it but I think Cena's ran with the ball longer than Hogan, SCSA, or Rocky ever have which is impressive. Cena is also played a huge part in two eras, the Ruthless Aggression era and PG Era(or Reality Era/Kayfabe 2.0 Era).

So what are you saying? That Cena is greater than Hogan, Stone Cold & The Rock? It sounds like that's what you're saying. And if so then that's a really misguided opinion. There's no way that he's 'greater' than the 3 biggest household names in wrestling, the 3 stars that made the company the most money and 3 people who were a thousand times more beloved by fans than he'll ever be.

If that wasn't what you were saying, then I guess work ethic and duration on top aren't exactly the most important factors of this conversation.

[Ace]

At the current position that the WWE finds themselves if John Cena left the company tonight & retired it would make worldwide news & millions of fans would be hurt. However it's getting to a point where just like CM Punk, they could probably manage to drown Cena out of the picture until a new face would rise.

This would be extremely difficult & the WWE would swiftly drop in rating IMO. That'd even include the Anti-Cenation.

My point is that he could probably reach the top 20-25 of all time but that's because of the intense reaction he always gets out of fans whether it be negative or positive (I guess these days the WWE thinks that getting booed means you're awesome).

[Viazon]

You see, this is the problem with Cena. He reached a staged he never should have reached in my opinion. Is he a credible main eventer? Sure. Is he worthy of being a World Champion. I think so. Everyone always knew he would win the title at one point.

But then the fans started to turn of him. That should have been the warning sign to the WWE that maybe this isn't the guy they should push as their top face. But alas, they did it anyway. And it has made people resent Cena.

I always figured that Cena should have been someone like a Sheamus or a Del Rio. Someone who wins the title now and then and go back and forth between the main event and upper mid-card. He shouldn't be in the position he is in. If he stepped back a bit and let others take the spotlight for a while and hold the title a few less times than he has, people probably wouldn't hate him as much. Then the WWE could have used someone who the crowd actually likes to get behind to push as their top face.

[Str8Shooter]

I feel like in 20 years from now people will look back and appreciate Cena way more than they do now.

You can't doubt any of his accomplishments, the guy has done it all, I mean he's literally had a 10 year run on top as a main event guy. How many guys have had that kind of staying power and longevity, maybe Hogan amongst modern wrestling, and that's it.

I put him in 11-20 range, based on a combination of kayfabe accomplishments, great segments and matches, longevity, drawing power, etc. I'm not saying he'd be in MY 11-20 favourite wrestlers to watch of all time though.

Tim mentioned a list of guys he's put ahead of Cena. I'd have to argue with quite a few of them though. One of the knocks on Cena has been his in-ring work. Yet he's had more high level in-ring contests than guys like Davey Boy Smith, Roddy Piper, even Sting. Sting's great, but he doesn't have a whole ton of fantastic matches, especially since the mid 90's. Cena has put on classic matches with a wide range of opponents, from small guy to giants (He probably had the best Khali match and the best Umaga match ever, not to mention solid ones against Big Show), he's had great violent brawls (Lesnar), to some great normal matches as well (Punk).

The biggest knock on him is that half the fans boo him as a face and he always has split crowds. But he's really the first BIG superstar to compete his entire career in the Age of the Internet Wrestling Community, where the highest number of fans are smarks compared to ever before. It's way harder in my opinion to get over now that it was back in the day. The stars of the past he's compared to as well didn't have to do nearly as much TV as he does, guys like Hogan, Piper, Savage, HBK, Bret, pretty much had Raw and 5 PPV's for a long time. Cena has had more exposure to the television wrestling audience which makes it easier for people to get sick of him faster.

[ChrisCrossed]

I voted him top 10.

In terms of impact, Cena is up there with Austin, Rock and Hogan; you could argue that he's on the Mount Rushmore of WWE.

In terms of skill or mic work, no way I can put him there. However I voted purely on him being the face of WWE for nearly a decade, can't argue against that imho.

[Messiah]

Where does Cena rank among the all-time greats? Right above Ultimate Warrior.

Your opinion is always one I love to hear but come on. I don't disagree with you through the rest of this thread with your thoughts on John Cena but I would certainly put him quite a bit higher than the Ultimate Warrior, who was entertaining but a lot more dreadful in the ring. But I guess it depends on who else you have above Warrior.

Cena did rise naturally to the top though, more or less.

His rise to the WWE Championship was, but I do believe his rise to actually being the #1 in the company (like Hogan, Austin, Rock, Lesnar, etc. were) wasn't.

find it hard to believe that their was 20-30 wrestlers who worked harder than him in the ring.

I find it hard to believe that there were 20-30 quarterbacks who worked harder on the football field than Tim Tebow.

Randy Savage has never reached the draw that John Cena has

Lets be honest. Cena would not draw like Cena does now if he was in the same era as Hulk Hogan. You put Savage and Cena on the same level with nobody to take away their draw and I am 100% positive Savage is a far bigger draw than Cena was. Hell, I don't see any reason to think Savage wasn't as big of a draw than Cena was. Savage had a better look, far better charisma, better in-ring skills, and just an aura that people loved a lot more.

You can't doubt any of his accomplishments, the guy has done it all, I mean he's literally had a 10 year run on top as a main event guy. How many guys have had that kind of staying power and longevity, maybe Hogan amongst modern wrestling, and that's it.

Why does everyone keep bringing this up? Cena has had a 10 year run as a main event guy but it certainly doesn't prove staying power. Interest in the WWE has steadily declined every year with him on top. Unless he is competing against The Rock, when was the last time his match was something people really looked forward to at WrestleMania? He sells the most merchandise but only because he is positioned to accomplish that considering Cena has the most merchandise made for him, by far (something some of you don't bother to mention). There is a reason CM Punk outsold him in merchandise by the end of 2011.

John Cena has been on top for 10+ years because wrestlers these days seem to naturally last a lot longer than they did before. Quality > Quantity. As a sports example, Favre outlasted Montana and I certainly wouldn't consider him a better quarterback. Cena has done nothing to change the industry.

And people act as if he is being booed simply because it is the "IWC" era. Fans love Daniel Bryan. Fans love CM Punk. Fans still love The Undertaker. Fans still cheer for Triple H. Cena gets mixed reactions because a majority of the audience does not find him interesting at all. I am sure if they made a shitload of merchandise for Batista, he would be high up there in merchandise sales too. Doesn't change the fact the fans don't find him interesting and believe he sucks.

[Buck]

I would consider Cena one of the biggest draws of all time. He's not up there with Hogan, Rock or Austin, but he's on a level just below them, which says a lot.

In terms of in-ring ability, he's been involved in some great matches, but that's just because he has the ability to be carried to a great match. You couldn't put him in the ring with just anyone and have it be amazing. Put him in there with Orton or Batista it's going to suck. Put him in there with Bryan, Punk, Cesaro, etc, it's going to be a great match.

It is admirable though that he can be carried, because some of the biggest draws in wrestling history, like Ultimate Warrior and Goldberg, could not be carried to a great match no matter who they were in there with.