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They fucked it up again

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They fucked it up again

Postby prophet » Jan 29, '17, 9:38 pm

How many years is that now? 4 in a row?

Congrats on another monumental balls up.

That was shite. I gave them a chance and I regret that decision.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 29, '17, 9:39 pm

Are you talking about the match or Orton winning?

The Rumble match sucked, but there is nothing wrong with Orton winning. How many better alternatives were there? Strowman? He has a great story behind him and it should be a good match between him and Bray.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Everlong » Jan 29, '17, 9:40 pm

There were only a couple short flashes of excitement throughout the whole thing. The crowd was dead for most of it because there just wasn't much excitement happening, and then the fans shit all over the end when Roman came out (which, if WWE weren't expecting that when they put him at 30, then they're morons).

This wasn't even a fun rumble with a bad outcome, it was just dull. What the hell happened that they can no longer pull off the rumble?
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Kreashko » Jan 29, '17, 9:41 pm

You can say that again. :facepalm
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby ShaneOfan » Jan 29, '17, 9:45 pm

Honestly it wasn't that bad. Okay so no Angle who I didn't expect to see. No Joe who I'll admit I thought would show up but not win. There were only a few dudes I thought could win. Jericho, Orton, Bray, Miz. Maybe Sami as an outsider. I knew there was noway Taker, Goldberg, Lesnar was winning. I honestly didn't think Sami or Bray either. Miz was my outside pick, but Orton works the best. Hell we don't know Cena isn't a transitional champ.

Roman in at 30 might have upset people, I guess. But so what? The problem with us "picking" surprises ahead of time is we will 9/10 be wrong and then disappointed. Roman came in to huge heat and looked like a bad guy. Plus anyone vs Taker will at best be the other good guy anymore, but now you have a guy to feud with him who can be the heel. Let WWE show us where they are going.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 29, '17, 9:48 pm

ShaneOfan wrote:Honestly it wasn't that bad. Okay so no Angle who I didn't expect to see. No Joe who I'll admit I thought would show up but not win. There were only a few dudes I thought could win. Jericho, Orton, Bray, Miz. Maybe Sami as an outsider. I knew there was noway Taker, Goldberg, Lesnar was winning. I honestly didn't think Sami or Bray either. Miz was my outside pick, but Orton works the best. Hell we don't know Cena isn't a transitional champ.

Roman in at 30 might have upset people, I guess. But so what? The problem with us "picking" surprises ahead of time is we will 9/10 be wrong and then disappointed. Roman came in to huge heat and looked like a bad guy. Plus anyone vs Taker will at best be the other good guy anymore, but now you have a guy to feud with him who can be the heel. Let WWE show us where they are going.


Yea I agree. I don't think the end sequence was nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. It got Reigns a lot of heat which they seem to have intended. Even the announcers played it up by saying something changed in Reigns. It built up to a match with Undertaker and his participation at WrestleMania was inevitable, so at least it will be in something that could potentially have a strong story behind it.

I don't know. It isn't like Reigns won. I liked it. The Rumble as a whole as bad though. Lesnar, Goldberg, and Undertaker were disappointing as hell.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Str8Shooter » Jan 29, '17, 9:59 pm

I swear the more they try to get Reigns over like this the more it backfires. In fact I actually believe they knew this time he would get mega heat, hence the Orton quick elimination once it was final 2. Orton's win got a bigger reaction because of it being Reigns. There's no way Reigns is getting any cheers against Taker, they might as well bite the bullet and turn him heel already.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby KaiserGlider » Jan 29, '17, 10:22 pm

I KNEW we would be here having this debate again, just like last year.

Overall, I liked the Rumble match. And the more I think about the finish, the more I like it. Nobody saw Orton coming; it was a total shock win for the first time in forever. Roman was there to get the Orton victory over with the fans. Nobody else could have gotten Orton over like that if he had eliminated them. They knew what they were doing with Roman. It was bait. Even I fell for it hard until I started thinking more about it afterwards.

Styles will win the title back in the Elimination Chamber, setting up Orton vs Styles, Cena/Taker, and Owens/Jericho.

Orton was far from the best choice to win the match on paper, but this has the potential to turn into a good storyline and get us a good Wrestlemania card after all. Face Styles vs Orton and the Wyatt family? Lots of directions they could go with that, and I'm intrigued how to see how the story develops. No way we're getting Cena/Orton part VIIXI or Owens/Orton instead of Jericho. I'm in "wait and see" mode, and I feel I have good and optimistic reasons to be.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 29, '17, 10:25 pm

KaiserGlider wrote:I KNEW we would be here having this debate again, just like last year.

Overall, I liked the Rumble match. And the more I think about the finish, the more I like it. Nobody saw Orton coming; it was a total shock win for the first time in forever. Roman was there to get the Orton victory over with the fans. Nobody else could have gotten Orton over like that if he had eliminated them. They knew what they were doing with Roman. It was bait. Even I fell for it hard until I started thinking more about it afterwards.

Styles will win the title back in the Elimination Chamber, setting up Orton vs Styles, Cena/Taker, and Owens/Jericho.

Orton was far from the best choice to win the match on paper, but this has the potential to turn into a good storyline and get us a good Wrestlemania card after all. Face Styles vs Orton and the Wyatt family? Lots of directions they could go with that, and I'm intrigued how to see how the story develops. No way we're getting Cena/Orton part VIIXI or Owens/Orton instead of Jericho. I'm in "wait and see" mode, and I feel I have good and optimistic reasons to be.


I would be absolutely shocked if it wasn't Orton vs Wyatt.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby KaiserGlider » Jan 29, '17, 10:28 pm

Why? That match would suck and Wyatt is not a draw on the level of any of the other potential players we're discussing.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 29, '17, 10:40 pm

KaiserGlider wrote:Why? That match would suck and Wyatt is not a draw on the level of any of the other potential players we're discussing.


Because it makes a lot more sense than anything else. They aren't going to leave Wyatt without a match on the card and Orton/Wyatt has been building up for months now.

I don't know why you think the match would suck but regardless, that will almost certainly be the match barring the unexpected. Wyatt will probably win the title in the chamber. Announcers may as well have confirmed Reigns/Undertaker.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby The Legend » Jan 29, '17, 10:41 pm

Messiah wrote:The Rumble match sucked, but there is nothing wrong with Orton winning. How many better alternatives were there? Strowman? He has a great story behind him and it should be a good match between him and Bray.


Jericho winning to challenge Owens would have been significantly better. Hell, watching it unfold, Taker winning to face Cena would have been better than Orton. Seriously, Orton vs Cena 56793? It's like WWE saw what happened at the Australian Open with a bunch of people a decade past their prime and thought, yeah let's do that with Orton.

It won't be Orton vs Wyatt. It's Cena vs Orton and Wyatt vs Harper at Mania. You can book it.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 29, '17, 10:46 pm

Lol, Orton vs Cena is not happening.

Seriously, Orton vs Bray is the most obvious match ever. :lol
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby KaiserGlider » Jan 29, '17, 10:53 pm

Messiah wrote:
KaiserGlider wrote:Why? That match would suck and Wyatt is not a draw on the level of any of the other potential players we're discussing.


Because it makes a lot more sense than anything else. They aren't going to leave Wyatt without a match on the card and Orton/Wyatt has been building up for months now.

I don't know why you think the match would suck but regardless, that will almost certainly be the match barring the unexpected. Wyatt will probably win the title in the chamber. Announcers may as well have confirmed Reigns/Undertaker.


You talk about Bray like he's a main eventer. He's a supporting character, not even the strongest guy in his own stable. Given how many big stars have to have matches on the card, I can easily see Bray just being at ringside and/or interfering in Orton's title match. Or being involved a triple threat. Yes, the Wyatt story has been developing for months, but why does it have to lead to Orton vs Bray this soon? That would involve shoehorning the title on Bray next month - a guy who hasn't been a serious singles competitor in forever. Why not keep them together for longer while Orton is establishing himself as a threat to the title, and then do the breakup later after Orton has won the belt with Bray's help.

Don't see how Reigns/Taker has been confirmed at all. If anything they've confirmed Reigns vs Strowman. I really doubt they would deliberately fuck up the opportunity to do Cena/Taker now just to have Reigns/Taker and Bray vs Orton. Doesn't sound right to me at all.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Ali » Jan 29, '17, 11:18 pm

I get the idea that a Surprise #30 likely wouldn't have won.

I get the idea that setting up Reigns vs. Undertaker here was a decent move.

I get the idea that Orton's win was heightened by it being against Reigns.

None of that changes the fact that continuing to put Roman Reigns into Main Event matches is, at this point in time, ABSOLUTELY POISON TO THE AUDIENCE.

Here's the thing. After we saw Braun Strowman cost Roman Reigns the title earlier in the night, a lot of us were excited. Why? Because it looked like the WWE was finally pulling their head out of their ass and taking Reigns away from a super high-profile Mania match. Sure, Reigns vs. Strowman wouldn't have been good, in all likelihood, but it would've been lower on the card and it might have been a decent start to a reboot for Roman Reigns. Hell, I probably wouldn't have even minded him being in the Rumble, if he had been the one to take out Strowman. That would've made a ton more sense!

Instead, we get Roman Reigns completely killing the vibe of the Royal Rumble match for the FOURTH YEAR IN A ROW! Yes, he was cheered in 2014 simply by being not-Batista, but that fooled the WWE management into thinking that people liked him, and look at what's happened since! The fact of the matter is that NOTHING has gotten Roman Reigns over. Not The Rock, not Brock Lesnar, not Triple H, not AJ Styles, not even time off of TV, and no, The Undertaker is not going to do it either. Even if they turn him heel, at this point, it means nothing! It'll probably still be some form of Michael Cole/X-Pac heat! "We don't like the fact that you are taking up space in a Main Event spot, kindly get the hell off of my TV Screen!" heat.

And I ask you, what sense does it make for Randy Orton to win the Royal Rumble? From here, we have to have the blow-off with Bray Wyatt, so are they gonna give Bray the title? Then what does John Cena do? I'm sure the plan could be to have Wyatt take the title from Cena thanks to AJ, setting up another Styles-Cena match at Mania, so I guess that'd be fine. Of course, they could easily go the lazy route and have Cena v. Orton for the 98 BILLIONTH time, because we sure didn't get sick of that six years ago! Maybe they can actually do something new, and have Orton blow up with Wyatt, then move to RAW to take on Kevin Owens! That might be fun to see.

But even if they are, in some way, going to end up with Bray vs. Orton, wouldn't it have been more fun, more dramatic, if Orton last eliminated Bray Wyatt to win the whole thing? Sure, it would've been cliche booking 101, but if we already know that its coming, why not just use the built in story? Instead, we have to have some convoluted build between Orton, Wyatt, Cena, AJ, the title... what is the point of all of this?

But there are ways to salvage Orton's win, lets go back to the biggest problem in WWE today: Roman Reigns. Why did Reigns have to have that #30 spot? It could've been a surprise, like Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, hell, I actually thought they would've had Seth Rollins come in! That would've been interesting! But no, we again get Roman Reigns practically no-selling all the damage he took earlier in the night in order to be in the match. The crowd was already dead for most of the match, but having that #30 guy be almost anybody else would've gotten a huge pop just for shock factor! Instead, the crowd utterly deflates the second his music hits. And sure, the crowd cheered Orton's win, but come on, at that point, the crowd would've cheered James Ellsworth as long as Roman didn't win.

Sure, its a long road to WrestleMania, and we don't know how it will all play out. But as it stands, as for the 2017 Royal Rumble, this is the fourth straight year that the Rumble was horrifically booked trash, and yes, all of the blame goes on Roman Reigns and every booker who wants to shove him down our throats. Roman Reigns continues to be the single biggest flop that WWE has ever had. At least with the Gobbledy Gooker, WWE had the common sense to not use him again until they needed to make a joke about how awful it was. Roman Reigns is poison, and I seriously doubt there is any way for him to ever recover, heel or face.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 29, '17, 11:42 pm

KaiserGlider wrote:
Messiah wrote:
KaiserGlider wrote:Why? That match would suck and Wyatt is not a draw on the level of any of the other potential players we're discussing.


Because it makes a lot more sense than anything else. They aren't going to leave Wyatt without a match on the card and Orton/Wyatt has been building up for months now.

I don't know why you think the match would suck but regardless, that will almost certainly be the match barring the unexpected. Wyatt will probably win the title in the chamber. Announcers may as well have confirmed Reigns/Undertaker.


You talk about Bray like he's a main eventer. He's a supporting character, not even the strongest guy in his own stable.


That would involve shoehorning the title on Bray next month - a guy who hasn't been a serious singles competitor in forever.


Those are problems with WWE's booking though. Orton vs Bray, regardless of how good or bad WWE is at building certain guys, is inevitable.

When Bray Wyatt has been healthy, he has had matches against Undertaker and Cena at WrestleMania. When he wasn't healthy, he was involved in a segment with The Rock. They aren't going to leave him with merely a ringside role. Whether you agree with how he's booked or not, or whether he is legitimate enough for this position, the WWE certainly thinks highly of him. Combine that with the storyline and it makes no sense to do anything but Wyatt/Orton.

I'm just not seeing what you guys are. The announcers straight up said on commentary Undertaker/Reigns wasn't over. Styles losing the title and winning the title back in 2 weeks seems unlikely, if not out right out of the question. And as much as I think the odds of Bray/Orton not happening is low, I'm willing to bet the odds of Cena/Orton happening is even lower.

There is no way it isn't Orton/Bray IMO.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Ali » Jan 29, '17, 11:52 pm

KaiserGlider wrote:Roman was there to get the Orton victory over with the fans. Nobody else could have gotten Orton over like that if he had eliminated them. They knew what they were doing with Roman. It was bait. Even I fell for it hard until I started thinking more about it afterwards.

I want to address this. Particularly the bolded part of it being bait to get Orton's win over. On one hand, I get that from WWE's perspective, and in some ways, I can actually agree with the strategy. Roman Reigns is so anti-over, he's under, so putting him as the last elimination is kind of smart, so the fans will cheer the winner. It works fine as a kind of get-out-of-jail-free card.

On the other hand... they shouldn't have to resort to that! You shouldn't have to book things in such a way that you need to throw out an awful guy at the end just so you can get a reaction! It's like when Santino Marella was the last guy against Alberto Del Rio. We knew Santino wouldn't win, but no one cared about Alberto. The crowd didn't boo the winner, they booed the result. Same here, I don't think they cheered for Orton winning the match, they cheered the result because it wasn't Roman Reigns. That isn't good booking. At all.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby KaiserGlider » Jan 30, '17, 1:19 am

Messiah wrote:Those sound like problems you have with WWE's booking, which is fine, but it doesn't change what is going to happen. Orton vs Bray is so obvious that I can't believe this is actually a discussion. Honest to God, I will send you money through Pay-Pal if barring injury they go a different direction.

When Bray Wyatt has been healthy, he has had matches against Undertaker and Cena at WrestleMania. When he wasn't healthy, he was involved in a segment with The Rock. Undertaker, Cena, and Rock. And you really think they would leave him off the card and have him take a role as someone merely at ringside? Whether you agree with how he's booked or not, or whether he is legitimate enough for this position, the WWE CLEARLY thinks highly of him. Combine that with the storyline and it makes no sense to do anything but Wyatt/Orton. It's blatant as anything they have ever done (which I'm fine with - I think it is a good story).

I'm just not seeing what you guys are. The announcers straight up said on commentary Undertaker/Reigns wasn't over. Styles losing the title and winning the title back in 2 weeks just isn't happening. And as much as I think the odds of Bray/Orton not happening is low, I'm willing to bet the odds of Cena/Orton happening is even lower.

Orton vs Bray will be the WWE Title match. I'd put money on it. It would be the easiest money I could ever make.


You make very good points. But I think I make good points too. Seems to me that the difference maker here (at least in regards to Reigns vs Taker) is that you guys have been reading the dirtsheets while I've been avoiding them. I'm forming my opinions purely based on what I'm seeing, so maybe that's why the matches I foresee happening make more sense to me than the matches you're foreseeing.

Went back and rewatched the part where Reigns eliminated Taker. Still don't see how a throwaway commentary line about how "maybe this isn't over" confirms the match. The thing is, Roman eliminated Taker fair and square so it doesn't make sense for Taker's character to go after Roman again. As of right now that match is no more confirmed than Goldberg vs Taker. On the other hand, Strowman cost Roman the title earlier in the night, which means they'll definitely feud and Roman will be tied up with Braun for the foreseeable future. Maybe they'll wrap it up on the next Raw PPV. But given Strowman's massive push, I can see it going to Wrestlemania.

I think Cena losing the title back to Styles at Elimination Chamber is a definite possibility. Assuming this happens, Cena going over Styles at the Rumble was the right choice story-wise. Cena needed a big win, and Styles looked really strong in defeat. And here's the thing: Assuming your predictions are correct and Taker/Reigns and Orton/Bray happen, what is Cena gonna do at Wrestlemania? Nobody has said anything about that. And Cena is a really big name. We both agree that he won't be defending the title against Orton again.

That's why I'm going with Styles vs Orton and Cena vs Taker. Matches with established main event names that make sense storyline wise. They can turn Styles face and have him go up against Orton w/Bray. Orton wins and the Wyatts take over Smackdown, or Styles retains and the story continues further down the road. If the heels win then Brock/Goldberg or Cena/Taker will probably main event.

The other factor behind my prediction is that we're also likely getting a breakup story with Owens and Jericho. Two of these stories happening at the same time seems unlikely and not ideal.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 30, '17, 1:26 am

Not necessarily rooted out of the dirt-sheets. They actually have been speculating Reigns/Strowman more than Reigns/Undertaker. My thing is there just isn't anything else for Undertaker. You say Cena, but they have given no indication they are even slightly interested in going that direction. Undertaker has primarily been on Raw since his return and Cena will be preoccupied with his title.

I could be wrong about Reigns/Undertaker. It could all lead to nothing and they go with Reigns/Strowman. But I really don't see Undertaker/Cena either. I really think they would have done more of a tease for it if that was the case.

For Cena, not sure. We'll see. I'm thinking Cena-Wyatt-Orton is a possibility too.
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Re: They fucked it up again

Postby Messiah » Jan 30, '17, 1:53 am

Also did people really hate last years Rumble that much?

I don't know, maybe it is revisionist history but I remember actually liking last years a lot. The only part I remember hating was how they copped out with Reigns missing almost all of the Rumble. It would have made his situation a lot more sympathetic if he lost after going through the match after starting at #1 rather than going to the back and returning at the end.
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